Will Billy Hamilton be moved to CF?

[Hillsdale87]

Originally Posted by membengal

Heisey and Cairo were better prospects than Billy Hamilton?

Seriously, Doug?

I think Doug was referring to Votto and Bruce

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by klw

But is he in the best shape of his life?

I wanna know if Billy Hamilton is the greatest person ever?

Seriously. I'm hoping Hamilton is moved to CF eventually, if not soon. I'm not saying he'll make it to the major leagues. But if he does, then he'd make the perfect leadoff hitter. And I don't see Cozart going anywhere.

I wish they'd move Lutz to LF too.

[rgslone]

I think Hamilton's acendance to MLB and success there will be tied to his own drive to get better and ability to make changes/adjustments (I'm assuming any help and instruction he will need is in place). For example, Votto just refuses to be satisfied, he is always trying to improve/get an edge. I believe that Bruce was considered a much better prospect than Votto; but while Bruce is a good player, he's turned out not to be in Votto's league as a hitter or in his ability to make adjustments. I'm not saying Bruce doesn't have the desire to improve, because I'm sure the ability to make adjustments is a talent in its own right. My point is that I wish we had a good idea about Hamilton's "motor" and ability to make changes/adjustments because I think that would give us a good idea about his chances to make it to and succeed in MLB.

[mdccclxix]

Originally Posted by rgslone

I think Hamilton's acendance to MLB and success there will be tied to his own drive to get better and ability to make changes/adjustments (I'm assuming any help and instruction he will need is in place). For example, Votto just refuses to be satisfied, he is always trying to improve/get an edge. I believe that Bruce was considered a much better prospect than Votto; but while Bruce is a good player, he's turned out not to be in Votto's league as a hitter or in his ability to make adjustments. I'm not saying Bruce doesn't have the desire to improve, because I'm sure the ability to make adjustments is a talent in its own right. My point is that I wish we had a good idea about Hamilton's "motor" and ability to make changes/adjustments because I think that would give us a good idea about his chances to make it to and succeed in MLB.

To this point I would say you can look at his improvement this year for a start. I was also impressed last year that he said he wanted 100 sb's and he made the push at the end of year to get there. He set a very high goal and got there. Bonus. This year he's stated he wants to DOUBLE all that. Well, not possible, but still high goals and shoot he's a few games from blowing past his 104 sb mark last year and may break the professional record. So, I'd say his motor and work ethic are very strong points for Hamilton.

[Steve4192]

Originally Posted by rgslone

My point is that I wish we had a good idea about Hamilton's "motor" and ability to make changes/adjustments because I think that would give us a good idea about his chances to make it to and succeed in MLB.

I think we have a pretty good indication of his desire to improve based on how his peripheral hitting numbers have improved throughout his career.

                 PA/BB  PA/K  K:BB
                 -----  ----  ----
2009 GCL Reds     16.4   3.8   4.3
2010 Billings     11.3   5.6   2.0
2011 Dayton       11.7   4.6   2.6
2012 Bakersfield   7.3   6.3   1.2

To me, that looks like a kid who has diligently worked to shore up a weak spot in his game. He's gone from being a hacktastic Willy Mays Hayes clone back in to 2009 and turned into a pretty damn disciplined hitter who will do whatever it takes to get on base where he can put his natural gifts to good use.

[dougdirt]

Hamilton is well known to be a very hard worker.

[rgslone]

Those are good points by mdccclxix and Steve4192, and given the additional information from Doug regrading Hamilton's reputation as a hard worker, I think he is likely to succeed - maybe big time. Aside from the debate about whether or not he can/should play SS in the majors, the only consistent concern I've really heard expressed is his power. But, for me, with a guy with that much speed I'd much prefer he first develop OBP and contact skills -which appears to be exaclty what he is doing. I think he has the frame to add some strength and time and confidence will allow him to develop gap power.

[Jamz]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I could care less if those guys were covered daily or not, they were incredibly better prospects than Hamilton is.

Hamilton can't beat out a regular groundball to a shortstop on anything like a regular basis. Do you know what Hamilton hit on grounders to shortstop last season? I do. Against minor league third baseman in 2011, Hamilton hit .256 on grounders to shortstop. Now, that is absolutely insane (in a good way). But fielders get better, with stronger arms, with more accurate arms, with quicker releases and the fields are even better at every step of the way.

I don't know that one could say that Votto was an 'incredibly better prospect' than Hamilton at the time. Votto progressed by a huge margin from the minors because of his work ethic and tireless perfectionism. At the same age Joey Votto was playing in A+ as well, but he was OPSing at .754 in 124 games (.945 in 24 games the year previous) that year (compared to Hamilton OPSing at .858 in 73 games so far.) When you look to the fact that doesn't take into account the best part of Hamilton's game it paints a pretty picture. Votto is not your typical prospect -- he was never expected to be as good as he is now early on.

Bruce on the other hand was supposed to be one of the best prospects to ever come out of the Reds pipeline (and being only 25 he still has plenty of time to grow.) But even his numbers weren't otherworldly when compared to Hamilton, and Hamilton is showing the kind of discipline and hard work necessary to take that jump and continue to take large strides in development.

Basically I think that Hamilton can do what Votto did -- maybe not to the same extent, but he is going to vastly outperform what was expected of him on draft day. He's already shown the commitment, determination, confidence and tools.

[dougdirt]

Joey Votto was playing his High A in an offensive suppressive league (think Petco) while also being forced to not swing at the first pitch of every count he faced all season. Hamilton is in an offensive boosting league (think Coors) and can swing whenever he wants to.

Joey Votto was a much better hitter as a prospect than Hamilton is. It isn't close at all. He walked a lot more, hit for a ton more power and struck out at an acceptable rate.

And yes, Bruce had otherwordly numbers compared to Hamilton. At this point in his career, Bruce was in the Majors after obliterating AAA at age 20/21.

[klw]

One thing to keep in mind with Hamilton is that when he was drafted he was described as raw as he had not played baseball year-round. So he is still a work in progress.

Here are draft time threads:
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...hamilton+draft
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...hamilton+draft

[Vottomatic]

Moving to CF only increases Hamilton's value since he's already played alot of SS. If he makes it to the majors, having a guy that versatile is a plus.

[powersackers]

Jay Bruce .249 / .322 line this year is weak. Hamilton would wipe the floor with those numbers upon call up.

[Jay Bruce]

Originally Posted by powersackers

Jay Bruce .249 / .322 line this year is weak. Hamilton would wipe the floor with those numbers upon call up.

I'm not sure whether to say you're delusional or just plain ignorant. I suggest a vote.

[Patrick Bateman]

Make sure to include the combination option.

[bubbachunk]

Originally Posted by Jay Bruce

I'm not sure whether to say you're delusional or just plain ignorant. I suggest a vote.

I will go with delusional