Cingrani is our best pitching prospect IMO

[dougdirt]

Cingrani sat 90-91 last night. Touched 92 twice.

You are speaking as if you can even teach professional pitchers a good breaking ball with ease. You can't.

Right now, there is absolutely no way that Cingrani with at best, inconsistent breaking ball and change up is the Reds best pitching prospect. Sorry, there just isn't. There is a reason scouts still don't know if he is a starter or a reliever. If that kind of guy is the best pitching prospect we have, we are in a lot of trouble.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

In other words Doug ... "He's being taught how to throw it."

Now pay attention. Ha.

He is 22 years old and still has a very inconsistent breaking ball and change up. That is why he isn't the Reds best pitching prospect.

[dougdirt]

How many times have you seen him pitch Blitz?

[Benihana]

Cingrani is a very nice asset to have in the system. I look forward to him continuing to improve (especially his secondary stuff) and being able to contribute meaningfully to the big league team in a couple years.

He is not currently our best pitching prospect, in my opinion.

[camisadelgolf]

[klw]

Doug-
It sounds like you have been able to watch Cingrani at least a few times. What is the problem(s) with his off speed stuff? You said its inconsistent. Does this mean he is inconsistent with ability to locate the breaking ball, is it that the amount of break is inconsistent, or is it a bit of both?

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by klw

Doug-
It sounds like you have been able to watch Cingrani at least a few times. What is the problem(s) with his off speed stuff? You said its inconsistent. Does this mean he is inconsistent with ability to locate the breaking ball, is it that the amount of break is inconsistent, or is it a bit of both?

Both. But the control doesn't bother me so much as I think eventually that can improve. It is the fact that sometimes it doesn't break much at all.

[klw]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Both. But the control doesn't bother me so much as I think eventually that can improve. It is the fact that sometimes it doesn't break much at all.

thanks for the info, Hopefully both will improve with repetition.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Cingrani sat 90-91 last night. Touched 92 twice.

You are speaking as if you can even teach professional pitchers a good breaking ball with ease. You can't.

Right now, there is absolutely no way that Cingrani with at best, inconsistent breaking ball and change up is the Reds best pitching prospect. Sorry, there just isn't. There is a reason scouts still don't know if he is a starter or a reliever. If that kind of guy is the best pitching prospect we have, we are in a lot of trouble.

So if he sits at 90MPH and has terrible off-speed stuff, where is this dominance coming from? I know it's only AA, but that doesn't sound like a repertoire that would work anywhere.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Superdude

So if he sits at 90MPH and has terrible off-speed stuff, where is this dominance coming from? I know it's only AA, but that doesn't sound like a repertoire that would work anywhere.

Left hander with big deception, outstanding late downward movement on his fastball and pinpoint control of his fastball. Despite the 'low' velocity of his fastball, it is probably one of the best fastballs I have seen from a Reds minor leaguer because of the movement, deception and his ability to throw it anywhere he wants.

And his offspeed stuff isn't terrible, it is inconsistent. There is a big difference.

[bellhead]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Left hander with big deception, outstanding late downward movement on his fastball and pinpoint control of his fastball. Despite the 'low' velocity of his fastball, it is probably one of the best fastballs I have seen from a Reds minor leaguer because of the movement, deception and his ability to throw it anywhere he wants.

And his offspeed stuff isn't terrible, it is inconsistent. There is a big difference.

Hopefully Doug he needs time to refine his offspeed pitches, which he has 2 years to do. The 2 years time line comes from how long it will take him to build innings in the minors, he needs to be able to go 150 to 170 innings before he is ready to be a mlb starter.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

Roger Goodell says you need to sit out for at least 4 weeks after that. Don't go concussing yourself! It's simply not worth it.

Cingrani is out-performing his teammates that are supposedly better pitching prospects. Sorry, I'll take the results. Is Corcino good? Absolutely. Am I thrilled he's a Reds prospect? No question. Do I think Cingrani is better? Yes. (Same deal for Lotzkar. Very good prospect. I like Cingrani better.)

Doug, every pitcher in MLB history that has added/perfected their breaking balls the deeper they get in their career is laughing at your assessment that it's so tough to teach breaking balls. It's not easy. But when you have everything else in place like Cingrani does, don't insult my intelligence and pretend as if he can't add to his arsenal as it pertains to his off-speed stuff.

Can Mike Leake be taught to throw 95? No. Can Tony Cingrani be taught better breaking stuff? You better believe it.

(As for Cingrani's fastball, I've read numerous places he's touched 95 during his pro career. It's kind of like saying Travieso can touch 99. He doesn't usually sit there, but he can reach it.)

[M2]

Everyone prospect should be burdened with Cingrani's problems.

[bubbachunk]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

How many times have you seen him pitch Blitz?

Still awaiting Blitz to quit dodging this question

Also Blitz, its the minor leagues so results are not king! If they were then Brandon Larson would still be your Reds everyday third baseman.

[fearofpopvol1]

For what it's worth, Kevin Goldstein of BP wrote on ESPN.com today about "10 prospects moving to fast track" and Cingrani was listed in that 10.

Only hitters are supposed to dominate in the California League, but Cingrani went against the grain by putting up a 1.11 ERA in 10 starts for high-A Bakersfield, with 71 strikeouts in 56 2/3 innings. A third-round pick last June as a senior out of Rice, scouts wondered how well Cingrani's arsenal would work at the upper levels. His fastball and changeup are both plus pitches, but his slider is well below average. He's been good, but not nearly as dominant in four starts at Double-A Pensacola; a majority of talent evaluators believe he could be in the big leagues next year with a move to the bullpen.