EURO 2012

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by improbus

So much closer to Tyson (or maybe Jerome Brown), only without the criminality so far. You have to take into account his size and menace, two things Ocho doesn't have.

BTW, I hate the camera angle. The far side is difficult to follow.

Really? There is actually only a 1 inch difference between the two as far as size goes. Much of his antics off the pitch are very reminiscent of the kind of goofball craziness Ochocinco often displayed. Other things about him, like the tendency for coaches to criticize his tendency to go off and do his own thing and his tendency to lose interest when he's not involved in the game sound very familiar. The one thing he does that OchoCinco never really did is lose his cool at times and draw a red card. But I chalk that up to the difference in culture between the NFL and European soccer. Plenty of world class soccer players are know for losing their cool and doing something stupid that draws a red card. That doesn't necessarily make players like Wayne Rooney and Zinedine Zidane thugs. It just means they're hot headed at times. If they did that kind of stuff in the NFL, the league would come down hard on them. And with the different number of games in a season, getting banned 3-4 matches in soccer is no big deal, whereas having to sit out 4 games in the NFL is 1/4 of the season.

I guess maybe Balotelli is OchoCinco with a little Corey Dillon mixed in.

[MWM]

Wow, Spain is REALLY good, I'd say the best national team I've ever seen. Total domination against a pretty good Italian team.

[improbus]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

Really? There is actually only a 1 inch difference between the two as far as size goes. Much of his antics off the pitch are very reminiscent of the kind of goofball craziness Ochocinco often displayed. Other things about him, like the tendency for coaches to criticize his tendency to go off and do his own thing and his tendency to lose interest when he's not involved in the game sound very familiar. The one thing he does that OchoCinco never really did is lose his cool at times and draw a red card. But I chalk that up to the difference in culture between the NFL and European soccer. Plenty of world class soccer players are know for losing their cool and doing something stupid that draws a red card. That doesn't necessarily make players like Wayne Rooney and Zinedine Zidane thugs. It just means they're hot headed at times. If they did that kind of stuff in the NFL, the league would come down hard on them. And with the different number of games in a season, getting banned 3-4 matches in soccer is no big deal, whereas having to sit out 4 games in the NFL is 1/4 of the season.

I guess maybe Balotelli is OchoCinco with a little Corey Dillon mixed in.

I still don't agree. Rooney and Zidane were never left off of their squad during the time when their teams were struggling because their coach was afraid of what they would do or because of off the field conflicts. The same goes for Ocho. His antics never compromised his on the field play in the way that Balotellis did. Also, Balotelli picks up a yellow card every game almost exclusively for just being Mario Balotelli, even though he rarely deserves it. That didn't happen to Zidane and hasn't happened to Rooney since his Everton days. Also, Balo isn't really a giant, but for an international striker he is.

Bill Simmons has a term that applies very aptly to Balotelli (and this brings me back to Tyson). He calls it the Tyson Zone. The definition is roughly as follows: "They could be in any headline in the news and it wouldnt surprise you." Any headline. Something silly, something dangerous, something criminal, anything. Tyson is there, Charlie Sheen is there, Rodman is there, and Balo is there. I don't think Ocho applies, (he doesn't seem the criminal or dangerous type). All of the following headlines could apply to Balo.

"Italian football star sleeps in bed every night with two panthers."
"Manchester City Striker sets pub on fire after being disappointed in their selection of red wines."
"Italian superstar actually international spy."

I would read any of those headlines about Mario and not be surprised. I would be surprised to see Ocho in similar headlines, and that's the difference, at less to me.

[M2]

Originally Posted by MWM

Wow, Spain is REALLY good, I'd say the best national team I've ever seen. Total domination against a pretty good Italian team.

Today was a demonstration of what kind of whipping a team can receive if it comes out and tries to play against Spain. The Spanish defense has more skill than most midfields. It's insane.

They'd be even scarier with a striker. Actually could have used Raul for this tournament.

Yet today was a message game. This was about claiming a place in history and obliterating Italian mystique.

[improbus]

Originally Posted by M2

Today was a demonstration of what kind of whipping a team can receive if it comes out and tries to play against Spain. The Spanish defense has more skill than most midfields. It's insane.

They'd be even scarier with a striker. Actually could have used Raul for this tournament.

Yet today was a message game. This was about claiming a place in history and obliterating Italian mystique.

Agree. They were aggressive, not letting Italy get into any kind of rhythm. If they had a finisher like Raul, yikes.

[Betterread]

Originally Posted by improbus

I still don't agree. Rooney and Zidane were never left off of their squad during the time when their teams were struggling because their coach was afraid of what they would do or because of off the field conflicts. The same goes for Ocho. His antics never compromised his on the field play in the way that Balotellis did. Also, Balotelli picks up a yellow card every game almost exclusively for just being Mario Balotelli, even though he rarely deserves it. That didn't happen to Zidane and hasn't happened to Rooney since his Everton days. Also, Balo isn't really a giant, but for an international striker he is.

Bill Simmons has a term that applies very aptly to Balotelli (and this brings me back to Tyson). He calls it the Tyson Zone. The definition is roughly as follows: "They could be in any headline in the news and it wouldnt surprise you." Any headline. Something silly, something dangerous, something criminal, anything. Tyson is there, Charlie Sheen is there, Rodman is there, and Balo is there. I don't think Ocho applies, (he doesn't seem the criminal or dangerous type). All of the following headlines could apply to Balo.

"Italian football star sleeps in bed every night with two panthers."
"Manchester City Striker sets pub on fire after being disappointed in their selection of red wines."
"Italian superstar actually international spy."

I would read any of those headlines about Mario and not be surprised. I would be surprised to see Ocho in similar headlines, and that's the difference, at less to me.

I disagree with control freaks Mancini and Mourinho that Balotelli is a problem. He is undisciplined and he wears his emotion on his sleeve but I think he is targeted for way too much criticism. It is because he is the best Italian striker in a long time - and Italian soccer is on a 24 hour media cycle as the country's most popular sport.
I'm sorry, but borderline psychos like Sergio Ramos, Pepe and Marcelo (all of these Real Madrid guys committ horrific fouls every year and Mourinho defends them to the letter) are in your " Tyson zone". Those three clearly go through brief periods of blind rage where they are really trying to hurt opponents. Balotelli's bad fouls (I remember him being redcarded vrs. Aresenal a few months back) seem more stupid than vicious.

[M2]

Originally Posted by Betterread

I disagree with control freaks Mancini and Mourinho that Balotelli is a problem. He is undisciplined and he wears his emotion on his sleeve but I think he is targeted for way too much criticism. It is because he is the best Italian striker in a long time - and Italian soccer is on a 24 hour media cycle as the country's most popular sport.
I'm sorry, but borderline psychos like Mario Ramos, Pepe and Marcelo (all of these Real Madrid guys committ horrific fouls every year and Mourinho defends them to the letter) are in your " Tyson zone". Those three clearly go through brief periods of blind rage where they are really trying to hurt opponents. Balotelli's bad fouls (I remember him being redcarded vrs. Aresenal a few months back) seem more stupid than vicious.

Sergio Ramos, not Mario.

I agree that Balotelli isn't a thug. However he loses the plot was too often in the middle of a game and sometimes he stays lost for the next month. Mostly he's immature, which you get to be when you're young.

The real question is whether Balotelli is a physical specimen or if he's someone who'll develop into a truly great striker. He got taken to school Ramos and Pique today and didn't have a Plan B when it became clear he couldn't physically dominate them.

And Italy hasn't been doing too poorly in terms of producing strikers. It's just finishing up the Del Piero, Inzaghi, Totti, Toni, Vieri, Di Natale generation. Gilardino gets overlooked, IMO. I'd actually say the best Italian striker to come along recently is injured - Giuseppe Rossi. Balotelli's currently at the front of the next wave, but Fabio Borini or Mattia Destro (or a number of others) could easily overtake him.

[improbus]

Originally Posted by Betterread

I disagree with control freaks Mancini and Mourinho that Balotelli is a problem. He is undisciplined and he wears his emotion on his sleeve but I think he is targeted for way too much criticism. It is because he is the best Italian striker in a long time - and Italian soccer is on a 24 hour media cycle as the country's most popular sport.
I'm sorry, but borderline psychos like Sergio Ramos, Pepe and Marcelo (all of these Real Madrid guys committ horrific fouls every year and Mourinho defends them to the letter) are in your " Tyson zone". Those three clearly go through brief periods of blind rage where they are really trying to hurt opponents. Balotelli's bad fouls (I remember him being redcarded vrs. Aresenal a few months back) seem more stupid than vicious.

I guess I am taking in the complete package with Mario. I don't expect to see Sergio Ramos catching his bathroom on fire with fireworks anytime soon. You're right that Mario hasn't been flagrant with his fouling on the pitch, but just give him time, his Eric Cantona moment might come someday.

My favorite Mario moments.
-Setting his bathroom on fire.
-Getting arrested at 17 for trying to sneak into a female prison. (no joke)
-Throwing darts at youth players.
-Giving 1000 pounds to a hobo.
-Reading his iPad on the Italy bench.
-Stealing Sergo Agueros gloves (as a teammate by the way) before a game. Aguero was working on his shoes right before kick off and set them down when Mario pounced.

[improbus]

Now, I will agree that the glove stealing sounds a lot like something Ocho would do, as does the Hobo thing. But, he wouldn't throw darts at players or get into a fight with Rio Ferdinand at Wembley.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by M2

Today was a demonstration of what kind of whipping a team can receive if it comes out and tries to play against Spain. The Spanish defense has more skill than most midfields. It's insane.

They'd be even scarier with a striker. Actually could have used Raul for this tournament.

Yet today was a message game. This was about claiming a place in history and obliterating Italian mystique.

I would have really liked to see the German squad play Spain. For my money Ozil was the best player in the first 4 matches of the tournament.

The final was a decent game until Italy was forced to go all in trying to score goals with 10 men. Spain blew it open late but I was happy the game was played the way it was. It seems to me that the title game more often than not is pretty boring.