Justin Upton...again - Page 5 - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

cincrazy · 07-08-2012, 12:25 PM

The more I think about it, I don't think it makes much sense for the Reds to do this. We just gutted our system for Latos last year, do we really want to do it again? I'm not sure a team in our position can afford to rid ourselves of more depth. I certainly don't want to rid ourselves of the prospects necessary to acquire him. Just because he's a big name and an impact talent doesn't mean it makes all that much sense. We've got our superstar in Votto. And great pitching. In reality, we should be more focused on finding pieces to the puzzle to put around the edges, not the big piece in the middle.

edabbs44 · 07-08-2012, 12:34 PM

I'm probably in the minority, however I don't have much interest in Upton.

Plus Plus · 07-08-2012, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edabbs44

I'm probably in the minority, however I don't have much interest in Upton.

I agree, edabbs44. While I agree that the two Upton brothers have unbelievable potential, they seem to find ways to disappoint when looking back on the season. That, plus the amount that it would take to acquire Justin Upton, makes him a non-target for me.

cbowen2112 · 07-08-2012, 01:09 PM

Let's just wait until next year and grab BJ Uptom for LF.

jojo · 07-08-2012, 01:14 PM

I'd be all over Justin Upton.

He'd be like putting a right handed version of Bruce with better on base skills in left field. Upton and Bruce have similar sized platoon splits but whereas Bruce's platoon weakness reduces him to a slightly below average hitter against same-handed pitchers, Upton's is such that he is still significantly above average against same-handed hitters.

Bruce is a slightly better defender for his career (that's why I'd put Upton in left) but Upton has been a significantly better hitter. If Walt could get a corner outfielder who is better than Bruce in a trade, he probably should do it (with the usual caveats of course).

Adding either Willingham or Justin Upton to the Reds lineup would be a dream come true.

WVRedsFan · 07-08-2012, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plus Plus

I agree, edabbs44. While I agree that the two Upton brothers have unbelievable potential, they seem to find ways to disappoint when looking back on the season. That, plus the amount that it would take to acquire Justin Upton, makes him a non-target for me.

I'm with you two. He just isn't the impact hitter I would like to see. And I wouldn't give up the farm for a .270-ish hitter who happens to get on base at a pretty good clip. I hope there are better options.

RedEye · 07-08-2012, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cincrazy

The more I think about it, I don't think it makes much sense for the Reds to do this. We just gutted our system for Latos last year, do we really want to do it again? I'm not sure a team in our position can afford to rid ourselves of more depth. I certainly don't want to rid ourselves of the prospects necessary to acquire him. Just because he's a big name and an impact talent doesn't mean it makes all that much sense. We've got our superstar in Votto. And great pitching. In reality, we should be more focused on finding pieces to the puzzle to put around the edges, not the big piece in the middle.

I think Upton is potentially THE piece that completes a huge part of this puzzle. There is a reason that the Cards ponied up and brought in Holliday to replace Rolen when he was ineffective -- they needed someone to strike fear in pitchers after Pujols. The Reds now have their own Pujols in Votto, but they haven't been able to find their Rolen/Holliday (except for when they actually had that same Rolen for the first half of 2010). People talk about having no OBP types at the top of the order, but honestly a lot of those types of problems become diminished when you've got the type of 3/4 combo that Votto/Upton would provide. Add in Bruce and his potential for greatness, and you've got a 3/4/5 that no team is going to want to face, ever. Acquire an aging Juan Pierre and slot in BP at #2 and suddenly this is a dominant O to match a dominant staff. Hello, October baseball.

Vottomatic · 07-08-2012, 01:19 PM

I don't see a potential cleanup hitter in the Reds farm system, therefore they need to acquire one......Upton, Willingham, etc.

I do see a potential leadoff hitter down the road in the farm system in Hamilton. So aquiring a rental for leadoff makes sense.

RedEye · 07-08-2012, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

I don't see a potential cleanup hitter in the Reds farm system, therefore they need to acquire one......Upton, Willingham, etc.

I do see a potential leadoff hitter down the road in the farm system in Hamilton. So aquiring a rental for leadoff makes sense.

The problem, though, is that said leadoff hitter is probably the main trading chip the Reds have for acquiring said players...

cbowen2112 · 07-08-2012, 01:21 PM

I think we will see a bench player that hits left handed added this month. Maybe a reliever too, but that is about it. We will have to wait to acquire a cleanup bat. And we will be forced to go with either the lead off rental we get(if it happens and we control him) or the same top of the order we have this year.

Vottomatic · 07-08-2012, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbowen2112

I think we will see a bench player that hits left handed added this month. Maybe a reliever too, but that is about it. We will have to wait to acquire a cleanup bat. And we will be forced to go with either the lead off rental we get(if it happens and we control him) or the same top of the order we have this year.

......and if no leadoff hitter and cleanup hitter are acquired, and the Reds offense continues to struggle because of it and they fall out of the race, we may be looking at a new manager who is willing to tinker with the lineup more.

Tom Servo · 07-08-2012, 01:26 PM

Upton OPS - .735
Ludwick OPS - .780

RedEye · 07-08-2012, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

......and if no leadoff hitter and cleanup hitter are acquired, and the Reds offense continues to struggle because of it and they fall out of the race, we may be looking at a new manager who is willing to tinker with the lineup more.

I wouldn't mind if Dusty were replaced, but I'll defend him a bit here. Short of trying Hanigan higher in the order, maybe putting Bruce at cleanup, there's not much I can think of that he could do with this group to make them better. He's basically got a team with Super Votto and a lot of hitters with good tools but bad plate discipline problems. He can only do so much.

RedEye · 07-08-2012, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

Upton OPS - .735
Ludwick OPS - .780

Upton, 24 with a career OPS of .838
Ludwick, 33 with a career OPS of .787

Also worth mentioning that Upton has had a thumb injury this year that has been holding him back. All signs point to a bounceback second half for him IMO.

dougdirt · 07-08-2012, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

Upton OPS - .735
Ludwick OPS - .780

This season.

I think the real and only question is, is there a real problem with his shoulder and is that the reason his power is down? If his shoulder is healthy, you buy and you will not have buyers remorse.

From 2009-2011 Upton, at ages 21-23 in the Major Leagues, hit .288/.364/.503. If he is healthy, you trade what you can for him.

07-08-2012, 12:25 PM	#61
cincrazy Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Vienna, OH Posts: 4,136	Re: Justin Upton...again The more I think about it, I don't think it makes much sense for the Reds to do this. We just gutted our system for Latos last year, do we really want to do it again? I'm not sure a team in our position can afford to rid ourselves of more depth. I certainly don't want to rid ourselves of the prospects necessary to acquire him. Just because he's a big name and an impact talent doesn't mean it makes all that much sense. We've got our superstar in Votto. And great pitching. In reality, we should be more focused on finding pieces to the puzzle to put around the edges, not the big piece in the middle.

07-08-2012, 12:34 PM	#62
edabbs44 Box of Frogs Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 15,826	Re: Justin Upton...again I'm probably in the minority, however I don't have much interest in Upton.

07-08-2012, 01:09 PM	#64
cbowen2112 Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 325	Re: Justin Upton...again Let's just wait until next year and grab BJ Uptom for LF.

07-08-2012, 01:14 PM	#65
jojo Five Tool Fool Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 16,578	Re: Justin Upton...again I'd be all over Justin Upton. He'd be like putting a right handed version of Bruce with better on base skills in left field. Upton and Bruce have similar sized platoon splits but whereas Bruce's platoon weakness reduces him to a slightly below average hitter against same-handed pitchers, Upton's is such that he is still significantly above average against same-handed hitters. Bruce is a slightly better defender for his career (that's why I'd put Upton in left) but Upton has been a significantly better hitter. If Walt could get a corner outfielder who is better than Bruce in a trade, he probably should do it (with the usual caveats of course). Adding either Willingham or Justin Upton to the Reds lineup would be a dream come true. __________________ "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

07-08-2012, 01:19 PM	#68
Vottomatic All work and no play..... Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lebanon Posts: 6,847	Re: Justin Upton...again I don't see a potential cleanup hitter in the Reds farm system, therefore they need to acquire one......Upton, Willingham, etc. I do see a potential leadoff hitter down the road in the farm system in Hamilton. So aquiring a rental for leadoff makes sense. __________________ "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic. "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

07-08-2012, 01:21 PM	#70
cbowen2112 Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 325	Re: Justin Upton...again I think we will see a bench player that hits left handed added this month. Maybe a reliever too, but that is about it. We will have to wait to acquire a cleanup bat. And we will be forced to go with either the lead off rental we get(if it happens and we control him) or the same top of the order we have this year.

07-08-2012, 01:26 PM	#72
Tom Servo thirsty and miserable Join Date: May 2006 Location: NJ/NY Posts: 5,421	Re: Justin Upton...again Upton OPS - .735 Ludwick OPS - .780 __________________ "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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