Justin Upton...again

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

Who's the second team besides Pittsburgh?

All I meant was the two teams involved in the rumor -- Arizona & Pitt

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by RedEye

All I meant was the two teams involved in the rumor -- Arizona & Pitt

Oh OK. Thanks for the clarification.

[Benihana]

The four teams on Upton's no-trade clause are the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, and Indians according to Rosenthal.

The Reds can probably take on at least $3MM in payroll this year due to increased attendance according to Fay. Upton's prorated payroll impact for this year would be $2MM.*

Make it happen Walt.



* I know he makes $9.5 next year and $14M in 2014, but we can worry about that later.

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by Benihana

* I know he makes $9.5 next year and $14M in 2014, but we can worry about that later.

The only big salary coming off the books is Rolen. The only big arb cases are Bailey and Latos, who will likely eat up the Rolen savings. The only way I can see to make room would be to trade Arroyo -- which if he keeps up the way he's been pitching, should be doable. That would also make room for Chapman in the rotation. How convenient.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Upton is a real upgrade in LF. Ludwick's OBP against righties the last two years is below .300. Ludwick has good power, but he's not in Upton's class.

I'd make this proposed deal. Ludwick then could be packaged in a deal to help cover SS and/or 3B along with Rolen, Valdez, possibly Janish, H Rod, whatever.

Would require more moves, would change the team a bit, but the offense needs the change.

I just don't see how any GM can turn over LF, SS, and 3b between now and the trading deadline and end up with good players in all 3 positions.
Cozart is actually a good SS (especially compared to what we've had in the past).. Likewise, the supply of good 3b is pretty scarce.

I still think the dropoff at SS/3b would more than overshadow the gain of Upton over Ludwick. I agree that Upton is a better player.. however, I don't think it makes sense to trade any of the Reds starting position players for him, other than maybe one of Stubbs/Heisey..
IMO, Cozart is one of the reasons the team is doing better this year.. He's light years better than Janish/Returia was last year. Sure, I'd like his OBP to be better, but he's still on pace to score about 90 runs this year.. that's not horrible from a leadoff man. (Sure, it could be better)

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

The only big salary coming off the books is Rolen. The only big arb cases are Bailey and Latos, who will likely eat up the Rolen savings. The only way I can see to make room would be to trade Arroyo -- which if he keeps up the way he's been pitching, should be doable. That would also make room for Chapman in the rotation. How convenient.

How much of the ~$24M do you think the Reds would need to eat to trade away Arroyo? Even if it's "only" half of that, what team would be willing to give the Reds $12M plus prospects (presumably) for less than a year-and-a-half of Arroyo?

[Scrap Irony]

I think Boston might, assuming they go for it this year. (Doubtful as it may seem at this point.) Others who might be interested include Toronto, Baltimore, LA Angels, and maybe Detroit.

[Vottomatic]

I thought Boston had luxury tax problems with their payroll?

[jojo]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

The only big salary coming off the books is Rolen. The only big arb cases are Bailey and Latos, who will likely eat up the Rolen savings. The only way I can see to make room would be to trade Arroyo -- which if he keeps up the way he's been pitching, should be doable. That would also make room for Chapman in the rotation. How convenient.

Having Rolen fade into the sunset only causes $6.5m to evaporate. The Reds hopefully will make a deep run in the playoffs and bank a big profit windfall that will give them more payroll flexibility going into the offseason.

[Benihana]

If we were going to trade top prospects in an Upton trade, I'd try to include either Stubbs or Masset to help offset some of the salary going forward. Also a good point that Upton would only cost an incremental 4mm over what Ludwick would cost next year.

[camisadelgolf]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...-rare-company/
It's an article that explains how rare it is for players like Upton to be traded.

[Dan]

I've been on the fence about this deal, and after thinking about it I'd be willing to include Hamilton in a deal. I'd like to see something like:

Stubbs/Hamilton/Sulbaren for Upton but would be willing to substitute Cingrani or Corcino if they would give us a lottery ticket LH pitcher in return.

As far as the every day lineup goes:

2b Phillips
3b Frazier
1b Votto
RF Upton
CF Bruce
LF Ludwick
C Mesigan
SS Cozart

[vaticanplum]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...-rare-company/
It's an article that explains how rare it is for players like Upton to be traded.

The biggest thing I got from that article is: Justin Upton is only 24??

Wow, I haven't been high on him, but that may have swayed me quite a bit. It just feels like he's been around a long time.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by vaticanplum

The biggest thing I got from that article is: Justin Upton is only 24??

Wow, I haven't been high on him, but that may have swayed me quite a bit. It just feels like he's been around a long time.

He has. He got called up when he was 19.

[corkedbat]

Madson comes off the books too.