Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

[marcshoe]

Originally Posted by cumberlandreds

Good article about someone who was affected by Paterno's power at Penn State.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/15/us/tri...html?hpt=hp_c1

Last December I had Christmas Eve dinner in Florida with my father, who is a retired college professor, his wife, and some of their old colleagues. One of these was a man whose late wife had for years been a liaison to the Penn State athletic department--I'm sorry, but I don't remember her exact job title. He and his wife had been good friends with Tim Curley, who gave them a rocking chair as a retirement gift that he keeps in his home.

He was extremely upset by this whole thing, but he wasn't surprised by it. I hadn't posted on this thread, but when I read this article, it reminded me of what he said: his wife's biggest problem in her job had been dealing with Joe Paterno and the football program. He said that Paterno believed that he was the sole authority concerning what happened in the program, and that their problems should remain in house. I'm sorry if I'm mischaracterizing what he said, but this is what I got from his rather passionate speech.

He also told us that everyone at Penn State knew that there was some major problem that had led to Sandusky's forced retirement, but no one knew what the nature of it was. While he had been friends with Curley, he didn't apologize for him, but instead painted a picture of a program with no outside accountability.

[marcshoe]

As to Bill James' insistence on Paterno's innocence, does anyone remember The Trial of Pete Rose on ESPN, where James testified that he was convinced that Rose didn't bet on baseball?

[WMR]

I used to have a lot of respect for Bill James.

[WMR]

There was a plane flying one of those message flags today at Happy Valley saying, "Take the statue down or we'll take it down for you."

Nice to see someone with a hint of a moral compass.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Who cares what a bunch of unnamed students think?

It isn't just students, it also alumni. All of it is because of 'The Penn State Way'. That football is bigger than anything else. That a whole lot of good makes it ok to still celebrate someone who protected a child rapist.

And frankly, I still don't care. I want and think the entire institution should be closed down with or without that article.

[KoryMac5]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

It isn't just students, it also alumni. All of it is because of 'The Penn State Way'. That football is bigger than anything else. That a whole lot of good makes it ok to still celebrate someone who protected a child rapist.

And frankly, I still don't care. I want and think the entire institution should be closed down with or without that article.

Yes close down an entire institution for the sins of Paterno and the rest of his henchman. Penn State is a lot more than just a football program and it is not fair to academia to shut down an entire institution based on individuals within the athletic dept running rampant without proper controls.

You might as well shut down the entire state because the current govenor also knew about Sandusky and refused to dedicate enough resources to investigate.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

It isn't just students, it also alumni. All of it is because of 'The Penn State Way'. That football is bigger than anything else. That a whole lot of good makes it ok to still celebrate someone who protected a child rapist.

And frankly, I still don't care. I want and think the entire institution should be closed down with or without that article.

I went to school at OSU in which football is king. I never understood it until I arrived there and still really can't compare it to anything I have seen since. For people who grew up in central or northern Ohio OSU football is like a religion. That said Ohio State University means much much much much more to the community than just a football team. On orentiation they told us that on a school day the campus of OSU is the 4th largest city in Ohio. I would be willing to be that OSU is the largest employer in Columbus (UC is in Cincinnati). The university means much more to the community than just a football program.

You don't shut down PSU for the sins of a couple of people. You don't close the doors on the local businesses who depend on PSU, you don't send all the employees of PSU to the unemployment office, you don't stop all the research, or the education of the students, all because of the sins of a couple of people. That is a knee jerk reaction that makes little sense. Jerry Sandusky was a monster, the people who covered it up just as bad, but do you close down every company that employees a sex offender? Should the Catholic Church have shut down Notre Dame, Boston College, all the local high schools and grade schools because of the scandal they had?

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

On orentiation they told us that on a school day the campus of OSU is the 4th largest city in Ohio.

So before you even took a class they were telling you fairy tales.

The 4th largest city in the state would be either Cincinnati or Toledo and they're just a tick under 300K. No way OSU swells to anywhere near that on any school day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Ohio


(Being an OSU graduate myself, I can poke fun at them for this sort of thing)

[cincrazy]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

So before you even took a class they were telling you fairy tales.

The 4th largest city in the state would be either Cincinnati or Toledo and they're just a tick under 300K. No way OSU swells to anywhere near that on any school day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Ohio


(Being an OSU graduate myself, I can poke fun at them for this sort of thing)

Perhaps he's referring to football Saturdays... in that case OSU's campus probably IS the 4th largest city in Ohio. I know in 2006 when UM and OSU were both undefeated there were 105,000 in the stadium and an estimated 250,000-300,000 outside the stadium.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by cincrazy

Perhaps he's referring to football Saturdays... in that case OSU's campus probably IS the 4th largest city in Ohio. I know in 2006 when UM and OSU were both undefeated there were 105,000 in the stadium and an estimated 250,000-300,000 outside the stadium.

Even that sounds far fetched. Where were the 250-300K outside the stadium?

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by tixe

As to Bill James' insistence on Paterno's innocence, does anyone remember The Trial of Pete Rose on ESPN, where James testified that he was convinced that Rose didn't bet on baseball?

I was just thinking about that. He may be great at coming up with new ways to evaluate players, but he's pretty terrible when it comes to evaluating a person's character. He seems to be a romantic at heart who wants to believe in the mythos that some sports figures have built around themselves.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

So before you even took a class they were telling you fairy tales.

The 4th largest city in the state would be either Cincinnati or Toledo and they're just a tick under 300K. No way OSU swells to anywhere near that on any school day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Ohio


(Being an OSU graduate myself, I can poke fun at them for this sort of thing)

I am not exactly sure. It seemed to me there is a pretty good chance its 5th or 6th behind the C's, Dayton and Toledo. But on a given day there are a lot of people on that campus. Not only students but faculity and staff, as well as local business within that area.

Regardless large state universities are vital to the economies of their area. Maybe not so much as OSU because it sits in a rather large city as is, but in State College, PSU means more than most outsiders can imagine.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

I am not exactly sure. It seemed to me there is a pretty good chance its 5th or 6th behind the C's, Dayton and Toledo. But on a given day there are a lot of people on that campus. Not only students but faculity and staff, as well as local business within that area.

Regardless large state universities are vital to the economies of their area. Maybe not so much as OSU because it sits in a rather large city as is, but in State College, PSU means more than most outsiders can imagine.

I can't imagine the football program is any less powerful or important at OSU than PSU. In other words if there was talk of taking down statues or handing out a death penalty, you better believe the folks in Columbus would be circling the wagons and I don't see anything wrong with that.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

Yes close down an entire institution for the sins of Paterno and the rest of his henchman. Penn State is a lot more than just a football program and it is not fair to academia to shut down an entire institution based on individuals within the athletic dept running rampant without proper controls.

You might as well shut down the entire state because the current govenor also knew about Sandusky and refused to dedicate enough resources to investigate.

Penn State is more than a football program. It is a school, who has trustees and a President who were in on this. It wasn't just the athletic department. And even still, the new board of trustees are doing the same things. Making decisions based on athletics. Get rid of them all. Close it down. Board it up.

As for the Governor, yeah, he should go too if he covered it up/failed to report it.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

I can't imagine the football program is any less powerful or important at OSU than PSU. In other words if there was talk of taking down statues or handing out a death penalty, you better believe the folks in Columbus would be circling the wagons and I don't see anything wrong with that.

I think that the difference is that OSU has never had a coach who was able to take over such a dominant hold of the campus culture that they could hold sway over the academic administration. Being a great coach couldn't save Woody Hayes when he punched that Clemson kid and Tressel couldn't survive the Tattoo scandal. I have a feeling that, if a football coach tried to keep allegations of child abuse by one of his coaches quiet at OSU, the higher ups would have told him to report it or be fired. I think it would be the same way at Michigan or Wisconsin or any of the other Big Ten schools.