Penn State / Jerry Sandusky Pt. II

[KoryMac5]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

At the end of the day:

1. They still play in the Big 10 w/ the Big 10 TV deal in place
2. They still have fantastic facilities
3. They still have an enormous donating alumni base.

They're losing a few scholarships. They'll still have 65 D-1, BCS-level athletes. It's not like they're going to turn into Ball State because of this. They'll still win football games, they'll still sell out Beaver Stadium, and they'll still make money.

It's not like they were sniffing national titles before all this went down anyway. It'll be "business as usual" for Penn State this time a year from now, IMO. If they would've been banned from TV or kicked out of the Big 10, it would've been a different story.

The NCAA took away the TV bans a few yrs ago at the request of the Networks. The NCAA likes to talk tough but when the networks start handing out millions that tough talk goes away quick.

As for the facilities and the donations I don't see how you could ever take these away from a school. PSU had great facilities and alumni before the scandal and will continue having those after the scandal.

Not sure what you are looking for here. These penalties have killed this program. The team will not be competitive for 10+ years going forward. The team will be out of the spotlight and the only kids who will want their name associated with PSU are maybe the sons and daughters of alumni. Christ I don't even like telling people I was born and raised in Pennsylvania because of this scandal.

[Reds Freak]

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

I think your lust for blood and anger at PSU is clouding your judgement. If you ask 10 PSU fans what they would rather have current sanctions or the death penalty most would say the death penalty.

The death penalty would have allowed PSU and O'Brien to go to kids and say we are starting fresh after next year. He basically could use this season as a recruiting yr. This penalty guts the team as you are not only losing scholarships but allowing kids to transfer to any program they would like. The only kids who are going to stay with the program are the ones who are juniors or seniors this season. No kid is going to want to spend 4 yrs at a university that is consistently getting there helmets handed to them. I don't see PSU being remotely competitive until maybe 2025. Plus from the comments I hear coming from New PSU President Erickson the football program is going to be deemphasized going forward with an emphasis put on academics.

2025? I think some are going a little overboard with the doomsday predictions for Penn State. I don't see how not allowing a team to take a trip to Detroit for the Motor City Bowl at the end of the year is really going to affect them all that much. You can still have a quality student-athlete experience and play in the NFL without going to a bowl game. Sure, they won't compete for a national title anytime soon and they might be a 3-4 win team for the next couple years. But I'm sure there are still a ton of kids growing up in Pennsylvania who dream about playing for the Nittany Lions.

I'm saying this as someone who thinks the NCAA penalties were fair. It sent a big message, gives a significant amount of money to sexual abuse victim programs and doesn't really punish current student-athletes.

[KoryMac5]

Originally Posted by Reds Freak

2025? I think some are going a little overboard with the doomsday predictions for Penn State. I don't see how not allowing a team to take a trip to Detroit for the Motor City Bowl at the end of the year is really going to affect them all that much. You can still have a quality student-athlete experience and play in the NFL without going to a bowl game. Sure, they won't compete for a national title anytime soon and they might be a 3-4 win team for the next couple years. But I'm sure there are still a ton of kids growing up in Pennsylvania who dream about playing for the Nittany Lions.

I'm saying this as someone who thinks the NCAA penalties were fair. It sent a big message, gives a significant amount of money to sexual abuse victim programs and doesn't really punish current student-athletes.

I think it is going to take at least 10 plus yrs for the program to get past these sanctions. Plus going to PSU is now attached to scandal I think a lot of kids will think twice about going to a school that housed a known monster. I know I wouldn't want my kids playing their based on that fact alone. Only the diehard kids who have parents attached to the program will want to go there now.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

I think it is going to take at least 10 plus yrs for the program to get past these sanctions. Plus going to PSU is now attached to scandal I think a lot of kids will think twice about going to a school that housed a known monster. I know I wouldn't want my kids playing their based on that fact alone. Only the diehard kids who have parents attached to the program will want to go there now.

Not just that, kids growing up right now are going to latch onto other programs as Penn State gets beaten around like the sisters of the poor.

[Redsfaithful]

A lot of it is about perception, I doubt Penn State will win any (ANY) recruiting battles until 2017, and at that point they will have a fairly long stretch of 3-9 seasons and 5 years of being perceived as Child Abuse U (what do you think kids and future recruits who are 12-13 and younger are getting out of this massively national story about the university?)

Someone said they won't be Ball State, I think they will be worse. We will see, but these are crippling penalties imo.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

The NCAA took away the TV bans a few yrs ago at the request of the Networks. The NCAA likes to talk tough but when the networks start handing out millions that tough talk goes away quick.

As for the facilities and the donations I don't see how you could ever take these away from a school. PSU had great facilities and alumni before the scandal and will continue having those after the scandal.

Not sure what you are looking for here. These penalties have killed this program. The team will not be competitive for 10+ years going forward. The team will be out of the spotlight and the only kids who will want their name associated with PSU are maybe the sons and daughters of alumni. Christ I don't even like telling people I was born and raised in Pennsylvania because of this scandal.

As someone who has worked with child victims of sexual abuse, I wanted to see the program burned to the ground. I wanted students and alums to walk by an empty stadium on Saturdays and be forced to remember the evil men who had allowed innocent children to be violated. I wanted ADs and Head Coaches everywhere to know, as they debated whether or not to do the right thing, that the justice of the Allmighty himself was waiting to drop down on them if they strayed from the moral path. Kill the program and make them come back as a member of the MAC -- see how deep the love for Penn State football is when they're playing a Thursday night game against Akron.

Instead? Penn State will have a couple lean years and be back to relative prominence (lets face it -- they've been second-tier in the major college football scene for a while now) within 3-4 years. They'll still be on national TV. They'll still sell out the stadium. They'll still lose to Ohio State a lot.

I'll add this -- I'd rather be Penn State right now, facing these sanctions, than UC, Boise State, or South Florida. Penn State is guaranteed (absent further action from the B10) a seat at the big-boy table for future college football negotiations. They'll always have access to the national title due to their conference affiliation. They'll always have access to major bowls due to their conference affiliation.

If you could offer me, as a UC fan, the opportunity to get the death penalty (or this "diet death penalty" / "enhanced wrist-slap") and come back in 4 years as a member of the Big 10, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

[improbus]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

BS.

The NCAA could have conditioned a reinstatement of the football program from suspension on Penn State continuing to fund all non-revenue sports.

The university has an endowment north of $1.5 billion and a huge donating alumni base. They'd have paid up for the volleyball team if it meant they could have their football team back as quickly as possible.

Could they fund 28 sports? Also, I'm guessing that Penn State's 1.5 billion is already spoken for. Penn State's non football and basketball sports cost $9.1 million (and that doesn't count the coaches salary, student aid (scholarships), recruiting, and game day experiences. I think they would pay for some of the sports, but without football, their athletic department would look a lot more like a MAC school.

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2...-other-sports/

BTW, that website is really interesting. It has a line item account of OSUs football budget. It isn't nearly what you would think.

[KoryMac5]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

As someone who has worked with child victims of sexual abuse, I wanted to see the program burned to the ground. I wanted students and alums to walk by an empty stadium on Saturdays and be forced to remember the evil men who had allowed innocent children to be violated. I wanted ADs and Head Coaches everywhere to know, as they debated whether or not to do the right thing, that the justice of the Allmighty himself was waiting to drop down on them if they strayed from the moral path. Kill the program and make them come back as a member of the MAC -- see how deep the love for Penn State football is when they're playing a Thursday night game against Akron.

Instead? Penn State will have a couple lean years and be back to relative prominence (lets face it -- they've been second-tier in the major college football scene for a while now) within 3-4 years. They'll still be on national TV. They'll still sell out the stadium. They'll still lose to Ohio State a lot.

I'll add this -- I'd rather be Penn State right now, facing these sanctions, than UC, Boise State, or South Florida. Penn State is guaranteed (absent further action from the B10) a seat at the big-boy table for future college football negotiations. They'll always have access to the national title due to their conference affiliation. They'll always have access to major bowls due to their conference affiliation.

If you could offer me, as a UC fan, the opportunity to get the death penalty (or this "diet death penalty" / "enhanced wrist-slap") and come back in 4 years as a member of the Big 10, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

Again your job makes you too close to this that all you can see is red. As a social worker myself and one who has worked with CPS I admire the passion, however I think your anger is being directed at the wrong folks. The students and alumni had no way of knowing what was going on with Sandusky or the cover up. Why punish them by making them walk by an empty stadium every Saturday. Did it make me sick to see people defend Paterno and the program, yes, but not enough to make them suffer for their ignorance. And I would also point out that not all PSU fans have blind allegience to Paterno.

This isn't a diet death penalty, enhanced wrist slap by any means. And most of the papers and talking heads agree with me that the penalty is severe. In fact there are several that think it is too harsh.

Personally I think more should have been done by the NCAA and PSU to raise awareness for child abuse. I think they accomplished the mission of making sure it never happens again however they failed to bring home the point in that there are monsters out there and people need to do more to stop them.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

This isn't a diet death penalty, enhanced wrist slap by any means. And most of the papers and talking heads agree with me that the penalty is severe. In fact there are several that think it is too harsh.

Watched ESPN this afternoon. Several people on there thought this wasn't enough. So it goes both ways a little bit. I am with CE on this though, I don't think it was nearly enough.

[nmculbreth]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

I'll add this -- I'd rather be Penn State right now, facing these sanctions, than UC, Boise State, or South Florida. Penn State is guaranteed (absent further action from the B10) a seat at the big-boy table for future college football negotiations. They'll always have access to the national title due to their conference affiliation. They'll always have access to major bowls due to their conference affiliation.

If you could offer me, as a UC fan, the opportunity to get the death penalty (or this "diet death penalty" / "enhanced wrist-slap") and come back in 4 years as a member of the Big 10, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

Spot on.

They're shut out of the bowl games and their share of the bowl money, but at the end of the day they'll still fill their 100k seat stadium and have a solid revenue stream coming in from their share of the Big Ten Network dollars.

Will they have problems recruiting out-of-state against the upper echelon programs? Absolutely. But at the end of the day they're the only football power in a state with a decent amount of HS talent, which means they're never going to be a MAC level school even with fewer scholarship players.

They deserved far worse. If the NCAA wanted to send a strong message they should have allowed Penn State to continue their football program without the benefit of any scholarships or the opportunity to appear on any sort of TV platform for the foreseeable future. Instead they'll basically be allowed to cut a check and go about their business with a few less scholarships. I fail to see the calamity others are prognosticating.

[Chip R]

I wouldn't have minded seeing the death penalty enforced but, as others have said, this is really going to mess up their program for at least a decade, maybe even a generation. I may be wrong but I believe that the 100K people who have shown up at Beaver Stadium all these years may decide not to come to the games after all to watch a doormat. They are going to lose 90 scholarships over 5 years. I'd be surprised if they get one blue chip recruit outside Pennsylvania during this time. They are essentially going to be a 1-AA school. As a fan of a 1-AA school I know that they can beat the 1-A schools from time to time but when you are playing 11-12 games against a 1-A school you are going to have problems competing over the long haul. This is much worse than suspending the program for a year or two.

What I worry about is that every player and coach is now going to be subject to sanctions by the NCAA for breaking the law. If a coach has too much to drink and he's pulled over, is he going to be suspended? Same thing goes for a player.

[Caveat Emperor]

Breaking the law wasn't the reason for the unprecedented action -- it was a combination of criminal activity over a prolonged period of time with an orchestrated cover-up meant to deny victims justice and leave a predator that had team access unpunished all in the name of protecting the reputation of the program. I don't see how a one-off OVI/DUI rises to anywhere near that standard.

And, really, as long as Penn State has access to national TV on Saturday and a Big 10 schedule to play, they'll never sink anywhere NEAR 1-AA level. There arent many recruits out there who would chose a MAC / C-USA school over a sanctioned Penn State. Playing in the Pizza Bowl isn't that big of a deal.

[Slyder]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Yes, they should. Higher education should be about that. Tuition is sky freaking high these days. Focus on educating. Cut costs where you can.

So those who get an education, that otherwise couldn't afford it, because of those sports mean nothing?

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Slyder

So those who get an education, that otherwise couldn't afford it, because of those sports mean nothing?

How many non basketball-non football athletes get full scholarships? About 1% at best. Yes, it certainly helps to get a partial scholarship, but only basketball and football are out there handing out full scholarships to 90% of their roster.

I will take the greater good of a whole bunch of people getting cheaper tuition and having more people getting a chance than a handful of athletes missing out on college because they got a third of a scholarship to play soccer/wrestle and decided to not go on to school.

[HeatherC1212]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

How many non basketball-non football athletes get full scholarships? About 1% at best. Yes, it certainly helps to get a partial scholarship, but only basketball and football are out there handing out full scholarships to 90% of their roster.

I will take the greater good of a whole bunch of people getting cheaper tuition and having more people getting a chance than a handful of athletes missing out on college because they got a third of a scholarship to play soccer/wrestle and decided to not go on to school.

I know it probably depends on the school overall, but I do know for a fact that there are kids in my area on full ride scholarships for gymnastics, soccer, baseball, softball, and volleyball so there are other sports that help students out with scholarships.