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07-26-2012, 12:43 AM
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#556 | |
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Viva la Rolen
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,330
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Re: 7/25/12 Reds @ Astros
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It doesn't matter though. The Phillies pursuing Logan has nothing to do with whether or not he is any good. I would agree that the Phils probably don't view him has one of the worst in the game. But that doesn't make it so. |
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07-26-2012, 12:46 AM
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#557 | |
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Et tu, Brutus?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Atlanta, Ga.
Posts: 8,934
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Re: 7/25/12 Reds @ Astros
[QUOTE=BuckeyeRedleg;2677994]
Quote:
There really isn't a right or wrong. It's a matter of opinion. Someone trying to make this a black/white issue is really missing the big picture. But if you don't want to rise above the fray, feel free to tell me how wrong I am again.
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"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda |
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07-26-2012, 12:49 AM
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#558 | |
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Et tu, Brutus?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Atlanta, Ga.
Posts: 8,934
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Re: 7/25/12 Reds @ Astros
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The point is, the Phillies clearly were able to identify talent rather well or they'd never have gotten where they did. The Phillies wanting him doesn't make it so, but give me a choice between the opinions of fans and the opinions of the Phillies, and I know who I'd rather have making choices on personnel.
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"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda |
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07-26-2012, 12:51 AM
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#559 | |
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Will post for food
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dublin, OH
Posts: 5,094
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Re: 7/25/12 Reds @ Astros
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07-26-2012, 12:52 AM
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#560 | |
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Viva la Rolen
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,330
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Re: 7/25/12 Reds @ Astros
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07-26-2012, 12:54 AM
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#561 |
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One and a half men
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,460
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Re: 7/25/12 Reds @ Astros
1. Ryan Howard has not been "one of the best hitters in baseball" for a few years now. That gap has closed. As a poor fielding 1st sacker with no baserunning skills, his contract is not a good one. The Phils got that very wrong.
2. Besides ERA, which we all know doesnt work well in predicting the future, in what way is O even average? |
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07-26-2012, 12:56 AM
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#562 | |
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Et tu, Brutus?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Atlanta, Ga.
Posts: 8,934
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Re: 7/25/12 Reds @ Astros
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OPS against Logan Ondrusek this year: .633 http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...01-pitch.shtml NL average OPS against by all relievers: .719 http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...g=NL&year=2012 There's your objectivity. And for the record, his career OPS against is .664, so he'd be an above-average reliever in any year he's pitched thus far. And all I'm arguing is that he's an average reliever. But his OPS against has actually been consistently above-average for relief pitchers.
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"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda Last edited by Brutus; 07-26-2012 at 01:02 AM. |
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07-26-2012, 01:05 AM
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#563 | |
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Will post for food
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dublin, OH
Posts: 5,094
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Re: 7/25/12 Reds @ Astros
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K/9, BB/9, FIP, WAR. How does he do there? So his BABIP is great. Super. |
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07-26-2012, 01:06 AM
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#564 | |
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Viva la Rolen
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,330
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Re: 7/25/12 Reds @ Astros
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07-26-2012, 01:14 AM
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#565 | |
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Et tu, Brutus?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Atlanta, Ga.
Posts: 8,934
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Re: 7/25/12 Reds @ Astros
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His career OPS against is 60 points below the current national league average for relievers. Even if you regress his BABIP, he's still at the average (which is what I've been arguing all along!!!) OPS against doesn't tell the whole story, obviously, but neither does FIP (which doesn't take into account anything about what happens in the field of play which analysts are now of the belief isn't prudent). All of this gets us back to where we started... something that cannot be proven or disproven. It's a matter of opinion. As I said, I think he's average, you don't agree.
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"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda |
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07-26-2012, 01:37 AM
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#566 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,659
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Re: 7/25/12 Reds @ Astros
Wow, what an incredible win. Not gonna lie, I turned the game off and walked outside and followed along on my phone after that eighth inning. Dusty had me fuming after using Ondrusek in that situation, and then leaving him in way too long. Glad to see Stubbs come through again!
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I miss Adam Dunn. |
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07-26-2012, 01:41 AM
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#567 |
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Hoping to be 75769013
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Dayton
Posts: 6,146
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Re: 7/25/12 Reds @ Astros
Ondrusek has pitched over 150 innings in the majors and has a .246 BABIP. It never has been higher than .257 in his career.
Considering ths reserch has shown that releivers have been to maintain low BABIP over their careers, it is not illogical to assume that Ondrusek's low BABIP is a reflection of his true skill level. Besically, using FIP and other DIPS stats to evaluate relievers like Ondusek is not very accurate, nor effective at predicting future ERA. Or more simply, Ondusek isn't as bad as his FIP or xFIP says he is. That said, I still would have brought in Marshall to face the lefty.
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. - Albert Einstein |
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07-26-2012, 07:04 AM
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#568 |
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2013 NL MVP and WS MVP
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 6,403
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Re: 7/25/12 Reds @ Astros
SOOOOOOOOO mad. My internet feed died, right at the end of the astros 8th inning. I completely missed the 9th. Aaaarrrrrgh!
 Well done boys! Bust out the brooms yet again! 7 in a row baby! :O)
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07-26-2012, 07:18 AM
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#569 |
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2013 NL MVP and WS MVP
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 6,403
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Re: 7/25/12 Reds @ Astros
LOL at you guys. Arguing and debating and getting ticked off about Logan....I wonder if any of you noticed that we won, we continue to win and are leading the division...still. Logan can be good, Logan can be bad. Same can be said for EVERY reliever. Tonight, he was bad. But he's only 1 man on a 25 man roster. The other 24 picked him up. Look on the bright side every once in a while guys.
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07-26-2012, 07:49 AM
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#570 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sterling VA
Posts: 7,857
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Re: 7/25/12 Reds @ Astros
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But basically, enjoy this. This is great after having to go through most of the 2000's with just awful teams to root for.
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Reds Fan Since 1971 |
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