Billy Hamilton continuing to excel at AA

[kaldaniels]

The thing with service time is that you can start and stop it. So it's not like the countdown begins once he comes up. It will just count towards his time once he is up for good.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by bellhead

If he came up would he be a super 2, even if he spent the majority of next year in AA/AAA...

It could eventually, but, it's effect on that would be minimal. I wouldn't let it be a deterrent for calling someone up.

Originally Posted by bellhead

Also would we loose a year of control for him?

No. The worst that will happen contract wise is it would burn an option year for him assuming (likely) that he will be optioned to AAA to start the year next year. Not sure if that's something the club would want to do at this point?

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by RedlegJake

True enough. But to use him in the post season you have to get him on the 25 man before the 31st of August unless I am missing something in the rules? That means someone has to go down. Am I right about that? (I may well be wrong - I'm not sure) I would imagine you'd want him as a pinch runner at least in the post season. I sure would.

There are a few exceptions to this rule.

If he's on the 40 man roster and someone who was on the 25 man roster before the post season is transferred to the 60 day DL, he could take that spot.

That's how the Reds got Chapman on the post season roster in 2010, I think Harang was transferred to make room.

HOWEVER, IIRC, it would have to be a position player transferred, you can't transfer a pitcher to the 60 man DL and have Hamilton take his spot.

Roster geniuses can correct any errors I make.

[medford]

IIRC, someone doesn't have to be removed from the 25 man per say. For instance, lets say on Aug. 30th, they decide Rolen needs to be shut down to rest up his shoulder again, so he goes on the 15 day DL. Hamilton (or anyone) comes up to replace him. When Rolen is off the DL, both players are eligible for the playoff roster. I believe the Reds used that loophole to allow some reliever on the playoff roster in 2010.

As for #2, while there is some risk there, I don't think its huge in terms of screwing up his development. You bring him up primarily to pinch run. If/when you clinch a playoff spot and your seeding, perhaps you give him a start or 2 down the stretch. Perhaps in a blow out he's given an at bat or two prior to that, but primarily he's used to pinch run, so I don't think you're going to screw up his confidence to much as he won't have much time to struggle at the plate. Now, since he's not being optioned back to the minors this season, he retains all 3 options. He goes back to AA or AAA to start next year, and has all season to develop down there. He gets 2 more complete seasons to develop in the minors or shuffle back and forth b/w cincy in the minors. In 2015, at the age of 25(?) he has to stick in the majors or pass thru waivers. If he's not ready to stick in the majors by the age of 25 he's likely not the superstar some hope he can be. If he's not on the 25 man roster by Aug 31st, then I see no reason to call him up in september. His speed could make the difference in a game or 2 in october, but I see no reason to start the clock if they don't put that option on the table.

A month of service time, probably isn't a big deal either as I'll assume he starts out next season in AA or AAA for at least a couple of months to get past super 2 status if he's ready to prime time action as early as next year.

[MikeS21]

For those of you who take the Baseball America digest, the latest issue had some glowing reports about Hamilton's showing in the Futures Game.

Most of us are aware that Hamilton didn't get a steal in the game, but showed his blazing speed on the triple he hit. What was interesting is that his triple was downplayed around here because it was claimed the outfielder misplayed the ball - a mistake a more experienced OF wouldn't make. (Why do we have to temper our enthusiasm, that somehow his big hit wasn't legitimate?) Anyway, my point is, no one at Baseball America said anything about a misplayed hit by Hamilton. They called it a "line-drive triple." Then they told about the next play, how the pitcher was more worried about keeping Hamilton on 3B tan getting the runner and wound up throwing it away.

What was really interesting in the issue was that in the Futures Game, they really don't worry too much about scouting reports. They don't worry about throwing a certain hitter a curve ball on the outside corner or anything like that. The game plan for a Futures Game is basically to throw your best pitch - which there were a LOT of 95-100 mph fastballs this year - and let the hitter deal with it. That's the game plan. However, the catcher for the World team said that they had a meeting and Billy Hamilton was the only player for the U.S. team that they felt they needed a game plan for. He said their plan was that "if Hamilton got on base, they pitcher would throw as hard as he could and the catcher would throw as quick as he could." (Isn't that ALWAYS the game plan with Hamilton? )

The only negative about Hamilton in the issue that I saw, had to do with an erratic throw (questioning his arm strength to stay at the SS position) on a ground ball.

[bellhead]

If they do that in the majors for Billy, Votto might hit .400 with an OPS of .1300...

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

There are a few exceptions to this rule.

If he's on the 40 man roster and someone who was on the 25 man roster before the post season is transferred to the 60 day DL, he could take that spot.

That's how the Reds got Chapman on the post season roster in 2010, I think Harang was transferred to make room.

HOWEVER, IIRC, it would have to be a position player transferred, you can't transfer a pitcher to the 60 man DL and have Hamilton take his spot.

Roster geniuses can correct any errors I make.

The Reds called Chapman up on August 31st that year, making him eligible for the postseason roster.

[osuredleg24]

Going to my first Blue Wahoos game tomorrow, I fully expect an inside the park HR from Billy!

[IslandRed]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

While I don't see Billy having a big effect on the Reds if he was called up...what are the negatives of doing so?

It also depends on the exact purpose of the callup. There are three basic ideas here:

1. Call him up by Aug. 31 expecting to use him on the postseason roster

2. Call him up after the minor-league season ends and give him enough playing time to get his feet wet

3. Call him up after the minor-league season ends primarily to be exposed to the big leagues, receiving little if any playing time except for maybe pinch-running

I don't really expect #1. #3? Maybe, some teams like to do this for players they believe are close, just to give them that motivational taste of the big leagues heading into the offseason. Not sure if it's the Reds' style, though. #2 is dependent upon where the Reds are in the standings, they may or may not have low-leverage playing time to hand out.

I'd say it's probably odds-against at this point, all things considered.

[Puffy]

Originally Posted by osuredleg24

Going to my first Blue Wahoos game tomorrow, I fully expect an inside the park HR from Billy!

I am jealous - I am dying to get over there.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

The thing with service time is that you can start and stop it. So it's not like the countdown begins once he comes up. It will just count towards his time once he is up for good.

You can start and stop it, but once you start it, there's a limit on how long you can stop it without jumping through hoops. So if one wants to start it, they better be sure the player is close to being ready for good.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

You can start and stop it, but once you start it, there's a limit on how long you can stop it without jumping through hoops. So if one wants to start it, they better be sure the player is close to being ready for good.

Are you referring to options or something else?

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by osuredleg24

Going to my first Blue Wahoos game tomorrow, I fully expect an inside the park HR from Billy!

That is funny. He tripled and scored on an error.... so it was almost one.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

Are you referring to options or something else?

Correct. Once called up, the option clock begins before having to eventually expose a player to waivers prior to optioning a player.

[osuredleg24]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

That is funny. He tripled and scored on an error.... so it was almost one.

haha yep, you could have almost ruled no hit and 2 errors on the play, the CF severely misplayed the ball as it landed just in front of the wall, and of course Billy made that an easy triple, and was able to advance home on the on throw that missed everyone