Votto out additional 7-10 days

[OldXOhio]

Originally Posted by cincrazy

In fairness to management, we have gone 17-8 without Votto. It's not like the ship's been sinking and they stood by and did nothing. I'm sure they will do something to shore up the bench by the end of August.

In fairness to you, I'll say I agree with your reasoning behind mgmt's handling of this. That and Walt just doesn't seem to do much in the way of deadline dealings any more. All of that said, the Reds weaknesses were obvious, regardless of the record. It really bothers me that they may have justified standing pat based on a current winning streak. I would hope they weren't that short sighted.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by cincrazy

I hear he needs his leg amputated and will return by the end of August with a prosthetic leg!

A cheetah leg. Bud is consulting the IOC on how to handle.

[cincrazy]

Originally Posted by OldXOhio

In fairness to you, I'll say I agree with your reasoning behind mgmt's handling of this. That and Walt just doesn't seem to do much in the way of deadline dealings any more. All of that said, the Reds weaknesses were obvious, regardless of the record. It really bothers me that they may have justified standing pat based on a current winning streak. I would hope they weren't that short sighted.

I think the game has changed, and Walt realizes that. And I think that's good for us. I definitely wanted a bat at the deadline, but if teams were asking for too much (as Walt said), I trust his judgment in the matter.

That being said, it's still frustrating our best options off the bench are Cairo and Valdez. That's putrid. No idea why we haven't signed Overbay. Would seemingly be a perfect fit.

[fearofpopvol1]

Originally Posted by Kc61

If Votto and Rolen will both be out much longer, Reds should add a first or third baseman. Otherwise they will be using either Valdez or Cairo in the lineup every day.

This 100%. But really, they should have made the move before this. Votto was out and Overbay simply was better than Cairo. So someone should've been brought in.

[Tony Cloninger]

Originally Posted by Kc61

If Votto and Rolen will both be out much longer, Reds should add a first or third baseman. Otherwise they will be using either Valdez or Cairo in the lineup every day.

Did I not say for the Reds to be pro-active in a game thread a week back...before the further Votto injury and now Rolen's again back issues came up?
You asked me what should they be pro-active about? Even without those 2 injuries....they sat around...again.....this time they played better but like last year, inertia sets in quickly around that front office.

[Tony Cloninger]

Originally Posted by OldXOhio

In fairness to you, I'll say I agree with your reasoning behind mgmt's handling of this. That and Walt just doesn't seem to do much in the way of deadline dealings any more. All of that said, the Reds weaknesses were obvious, regardless of the record. It really bothers me that they may have justified standing pat based on a current winning streak. I would hope they weren't that short sighted.

They were last year and it did not work...it has worked this year but I do not understand their inertia really. They treat this Team Chemistry thing with this team like a Faberge egg.... like if moving out a non-producing player is going to have the whole house of cards fall down.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger

They were last year and it did not work...it has worked this year but I do not understand their inertia really. They treat this Team Chemistry thing with this team like a Faberge egg.... like if moving out a non-producing player is going to have the whole house of cards fall down.

You are begging the question about team chemistry being the primary purpose for inactivity on the position player side. There is no documentation that I'm aware of for that theory. And Chris Welsh saying it on the game broadcast doesn't count.

[Tony Cloninger]

Originally Posted by traderumor

You are begging the question about team chemistry being the primary purpose for inactivity on the position player side. There is no documentation that I'm aware of for that theory. And Chris Welsh saying it on the game broadcast doesn't count.

Just beacuse there is no documentation...I can form a reasoning that they value it to the point of inertia with changing the roster just to even bring in someone like a Kotsay to help.

[kaldaniels]

I just want Walt to make a few decent trades a year, and I don't really care when. If there wasn't a good deal to be had at the deadline, then don't make one.

And upgrading from Cairo to Overby, yes it is an upgrade, but a pretty marginal one with 2 months to go. Looking at things from the outside, I'm not gonna drag Walt over the coals
for not getting Lyle.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger

Just beacuse there is no documentation...I can form a reasoning that they value it to the point of inertia with changing the roster just to even bring in someone like a Kotsay to help.

Well, sure its plausible, but that wasn't your point. Your argument is that no roster moves is a result of being overly concerned about team chemistry. That assumes that when a team makes moves, it is going to negatively impact this area. It also assumes that is the primary reason that only the Broxton deal was done. Xavier Paul was brought in from the scrap heap. Maybe they're doing background checks before they even kick the tires, I don't know, but I think the "team chemistry" argument for lack of deadline deals is unlikely. For example, did they really not deal for Victorino because he wasn't a good clubhouse guy? I think its more that there wasn't a fit between the Reds and another team until the Broxton deal came along. I just have a hard time understanding the perspective that the Reds declined deals that would improve an area because someone's feelings might get hurt. I also think that it makes for good narrative for fans and announcers to bandy about, but when you're looking to improve in the pennant race, you'll manage to get along with a jerk for a few months if he's gonna help you get to the playoffs.

[WildcatFan]

If there was any chance for a second MVP award, I guess it's out the window. Barring a complete collapse, McCutchen had in the bag anyway, I guess. Oh well, we've still got the Cy Young and ROY, right?

[GAC]

Is it pronounced Overbay or Oy Vey?

[mth123]

Originally Posted by GAC

Is it pronounced Overbay or Oy Vey?

I've been after the Reds to get more LH hitting for a couple years now. IMO, Overbay or Branyan isn't the answer though. Get Dejesus, Kotsay or Venable. Otherwise, I'd give H-Rod a look and keep Xavier Paul around.

The Reds really need to make a decision on Rolen. If he hits the DL, I'd call up H-Rod to play 3B with Frazier at 1B. I'd still pursue some one from outside the organization.

[Blitz Dorsey]

There's no way to measure it and I understand the arguments on both sides, but I'm adamant that team chemistry is a very-important (usually underrated) aspect of sports. Is overall team talent more important than team chemistry? Absolutely. However, team chemistry is still important.

That said, I'm not sure how Miguel Cairo hitting .150 and Wilson Valdez about ready to join him on the interstate helps with team chemistry. Valdez wasn't even on the team last year. Also, the Reds could "invent" an injury for Cairo until the rosters expand in September, which would allow them to add a guy like Overbay without dropping anyone from the current roster.

And are we really worried about "hurting someone's feelings" when we're in a pennant race? Cairo is not getting the job done and suddenly he's a guy who's needed due to the injuries to Votto and Rolen. Although, I suspect Rolen will be back soon, so Frazier will be getting most of the starts at first until Votto gets back. And let's keep something very important in mind: Votto won't be out much longer unless there's another setback. We're talking another 2 weeks max. Let's hold the fort down for 2 weeks and we'll be fine.

[Tony Cloninger]

I am more concerned moving forward as to how Votto is going to be having knee problems already. Does Berkman not have or had the same issues? Even with surgery...does this stuff not linger and then become an issue of the cartilage deteriorating as he continue splaying? I am terrible at this doctor stuff.