Mike Trout is Insanely Good

[RANDY IN INDY]

Originally Posted by mth123

"Johnny Bench. A Hall of Famer for sure." Ted Williams.

[fearofpopvol1]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I am not even sure this is the best age 20 season in baseball history, or even my lifetime. Different environment of course, but Arod did hit .358/.414/.631 with a league leading 141 runs scored, 123 RBI, 54 doubles, a triple and 36 home runs while playing shortstop.

In reading your posts about Trout, it sure seems like you're trying to downplay the season he's having. But I'm not sure if it's because you think Harper will be the better player or you think he's overhyped or what.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1

In reading your posts about Trout, it sure seems like you're trying to downplay the season he's having. But I'm not sure if it's because you think Harper will be the better player or you think he's overhyped or what.

Wow, you really tried hard to read into that didn't you?

My post about Trout was simply saying that Alex Rodriguez was also a flat out incredible 20 year old and he did it in nearly 700 plate appearances. Nothing more, nothing less.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

Missed that. I would be inclined to agree, but I would like to see those numbers in a more neutral run scoring environment.

Also, gotta question if A-Rod ever did any of it clean.

That is a valid question. Another thing I wonder about is what would the season compare like had UZR been available when Arod was a rookie. I put no value in the defensive values supplied by BRef. I don't have a clue what Trout's UZR is, but BRef says he is only a slightly above average defender and watching him, I just don't believe that. He seems much better than that.

[Spitball]

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

Is this the surest a rookie has looked like a HOF candidate, provided he doesn't get injured or abducted by aliens or something?

Red Sox centerfielder Fred Lynn in 1975 was a true rookie who was Rookie of the Year and MVP. He hit .331 with 21 homers, 105 RBI and had a slashline of .401/.566/.967. He lead the AL in slugging and OPS.

He was also a Gold Glove centerfielder. He was a sure fire Hall of Famer based on his early years. Unfortunately, he wore down and became injury prone. I blame all the diving and wall crashing catches in centerfield.

I also think Mike Trout is special. I was fortunate to watch him several times here in Arkansas play double A ball. He reminds me a lot of Fred Lynn.

[fearofpopvol1]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Wow, you really tried hard to read into that didn't you?

My post about Trout was simply saying that Alex Rodriguez was also a flat out incredible 20 year old and he did it in nearly 700 plate appearances. Nothing more, nothing less.

Not really, I've observed your comments in other threads with discussion about Trout and/or Harper too and it seems, IMO, that you've been downplaying Trout's season. You disagree?

[kaldaniels]

This Trout vs Harper is a fascinating debate and will be fun to watch. Unfortunately we live in a "pick a side" world that sucks people into defending positions they would otherwise not take. It's not just here, I see it on fangraphs and the like also. People staking their positions now so in 15 years they can say "I told you so".

Not singling anybody out either.

[VR]

Harper has a lot more holes in his swing and overall game than Trout, who truly does seem to be a 'natural'.....a bit of what was expected out of Josh Hamilton.

[AtomicDumpling]

Hard to believe how much better Trout has gotten since last year when he did not play well at all for the Angels. He is simply phenomenal this year. If Trout can continue to play at this level then Bryce Harper won't catch him. Harper is likely to be extremely good, but the bar set by Trout is awfully high.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1

Not really, I've observed your comments in other threads with discussion about Trout and/or Harper too and it seems, IMO, that you've been downplaying Trout's season. You disagree?

Yes, I disagree. You are looking for something that isn't there.

What I have said in the past (and even Rick said as much) is that he might be getting a bit lucky (very high BABIP this season) and that Arod had an incredible season at age 20, that on a pure numbers basis is stronger than what Trout is having. Bryce Harper has absolutely nothing at all to do with any of that. You are reading way to far into it, and I really don't know why.

[Jamz]

Trout is arguably having the best 20 year old season of all time. Earlier in the yaer it looked like Harper was going to have the best 19 year old season of all time. We've got people breaking records in the minors, we have pitchers throwing perfect games left and right. We've got guys like Strasburg, Bundy, Kershaw, Verlander...I mean -- right now we're seeing an incredible surge of skill and talent in the league that makes this a very good time to be a baseball fan, IMO.

As far as Trout vs. other rookies goes? If he can improve in a linear fashion, or if he can get even better than he is right now in any capacity he might go down as the best player of all time. It sounds crazy to say right now -- but assuming he doesn't get injured (and the guy is built like a truck) he could end his career with probably 200+ fWAR.

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

Hard to believe how much better Trout has gotten since last year when he did not play well at all for the Angels. He is simply phenomenal this year. If Trout can continue to play at this level then Bryce Harper won't catch him. Harper is likely to be extremely good, but the bar set by Trout is awfully high.

The biggest difference is that Pujols is on his team now...he's got the good stuff.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by Jamz

It sounds crazy to say right now -- but assuming he doesn't get injured (and the guy is built like a truck) he could end his career with probably 200+ fWAR.

Now that I just don't see happening.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...st=0&players=0

[Jamz]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

Now that I just don't see happening.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...st=0&players=0

Ruth didn't have close to a 10 WAR season until he was 24 years old. Bonds didn't have close to a 10 WAR season until he was 26 years old. Trout doesn't even have to improve to be almost 30 WAR ahead of Ruth and 37 WAR ahead of Bonds at the same respective ages. Think about that.

Although that's also why I said if he improves -- if he improves and isn't injury prone he'll be the best player of all time.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by Jamz

Ruth didn't have close to a 10 WAR season until he was 24 years old. Bonds didn't have close to a 10 WAR season until he was 26 years old. Trout doesn't even have to improve to be almost 30 WAR ahead of Ruth and 37 WAR ahead of Bonds at the same respective ages. Think about that.

Although that's also why I said if he improves -- if he improves and isn't injury prone he'll be the best player of all time.

Fangraphs (Dave Cameron) has repeatedly made the case that there is not much room to improve for Trout.

What you are saying is that Trout could be 15 percent more productive than any player who has walked on this planet. That is bold. Very bold.

Now, of course the caveat to my case is that anything is possible...so I have to acknowledge that. But, what odds do you give Trout of being a 200+ WAR guy for his career?

[jojo]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

Hard to believe how much better Trout has gotten since last year when he did not play well at all for the Angels. He is simply phenomenal this year. If Trout can continue to play at this level then Bryce Harper won't catch him. Harper is likely to be extremely good, but the bar set by Trout is awfully high.

Just for context, this is Harper's "Trout's last" year.

I'm not really that interested in debating who will be better after 15 years but at 19, a year in the bigs makes a big difference...

I would be ecstatic if either player became a Red this evening.