2012 NL MVP - Page 3 - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

AtomicDumpling · 09-03-2012, 04:31 AM

The best player in the National League this season is Ryan Braun and for that reason he should get the MVP Award. Braun provided more value to his team than any other player -- it is not his fault his team squandered that value.

Andrew McCutchen and Buster Posey have also been awesome. David Wright, Carlos Gonzalez, Aramis Ramirez, Matt Holiday and Giancarlo Stanton too.

Joey Votto, Matt Kemp and Carlos Ruiz have been fantastic too but missed too much time during the season.

To me the MVP is meaningless if it doesn't go to the best player in the league. There have been many occasions in the past when the award was gifted to players who played on good teams but were very obviously not anywhere close to being the best player in the league that year, and that has cheapened the award to the point of irrelevance to many people who enjoy the history of baseball. If the award does not indicate the winner was the best player then what is the point?

The Reds team MVP is Johnny Cueto. He is having the best season on the team this year. If you want to limit the MVP to a position player then I would give the award to Jay Bruce. Joey Votto is obviously a much better player and played far better while he was active, but he has just missed too many games and missed those games during the key stretch when the Reds dominated the league. Jay Bruce has led the team in all the productivity stats and deserves the award, but several players have had excellent seasons.

Brutus · 09-03-2012, 05:08 AM

Buster Posey for me until/unless someone else earns it.

fearofpopvol1 · 09-03-2012, 05:23 AM

To those who said David Wright isn't in the conversation is flat out wrong. Check his stats. He's played outstanding defense at a premium position (UZR rating of +10) with a .910 OPS (including the best walk rate in the NL). His home run numbers are down this year, which will probably prevent him from winning it, but his numbers are very good.

I think a possible darkhorse candidate may be Michael Bourne. He's got the highest UZR rating of anyone in baseball at +21 and he leads 2nd place by 5 points. I think his batting average needs to come up a tad (currently at .285), but that could be easy. He has the most steals in the NL. Not your traditional MVP, but he's quietly having a fabulous season and on a good team no less.

At this point though, it looks like it's Braun's to lose though.

mth123 · 09-03-2012, 06:25 AM

Tough call. McCutchen was the choice until he faded. I like Chapman, but Kimbrel is just as dominant. I don't think Braun gets a repeat after last off-season. Votto's injury knocks him out. Same with Stanton. I think Wright is not considered because of his team's record. Kemp missed half the year. Melky had a shot until the testing.

Posey or Holliday might be the guys. McCutchen still has a shot as well.

Brutus · 09-03-2012, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1

To those who said David Wright isn't in the conversation is flat out wrong. Check his stats. He's played outstanding defense at a premium position (UZR rating of +10) with a .910 OPS (including the best walk rate in the NL). His home run numbers are down this year, which will probably prevent him from winning it, but his numbers are very good.

I think a possible darkhorse candidate may be Michael Bourne. He's got the highest UZR rating of anyone in baseball at +21 and he leads 2nd place by 5 points. I think his batting average needs to come up a tad (currently at .285), but that could be easy. He has the most steals in the NL. Not your traditional MVP, but he's quietly having a fabulous season and on a good team no less.

At this point though, it looks like it's Braun's to lose though.

Wright and Braun aren't in the conversation unless voters are suddenly going to start giving the award to players on bad teams. And since that almost never happens, I think it's safe to say they don't stand much of a chance. And let's not forget, Braun's image is tarnished.

Neither will win the award.

AtomicDumpling · 09-03-2012, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mth123

Tough call. McCutchen was the choice until he faded. I like Chapman, but Kimbrel is just as dominant. I don't think Braun gets a repeat after last off-season. Votto's injury knocks him out. Same with Stanton. I think Wright is not considered because of his team's record. Kemp missed half the year. Melky had a shot until the testing.

Posey or Holliday might be the guys. McCutchen still has a shot as well.

I agree Braun won't get it because of the PEDs brouhaha and people won't be inclined to vote for him this year for that reason, but he deserves to win it nonetheless. Of course there is still a month left in the season and things will likely look different on October 1st.

_Sir_Charles_ · 09-03-2012, 09:00 AM

I still think the voters will go with the feel-good story and give it to McCutchen. Yeah, he's slumped lately, but I think he rebounds the last month.

However, a monster final month...and you never know. My preseason prediction just might come true. Bruce wins with Joey in the top 5. Longshot, but fun to think about. :O)

nate · 09-03-2012, 10:56 AM

To me, it's pretty easily Braun. .419 wOBA is Votto-lite!

kaldaniels · 09-03-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nate

To me, it's pretty easily Braun. .419 wOBA is Votto-lite!

I agree as he has simply been the best player in the league. But do you think the voters will choose him? If not him, who?

I find the question of who the voters will choose (despite the flawed thought process) more fascinating.

nate · 09-03-2012, 11:05 AM

I can't see Bruce or Ludwick in the MVP conversation. If we're talking non-Votto Reds, I'd say BP or Cueto. However, I think they're probably not realistically in the mix.

oneupper · 09-03-2012, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

Interesting choice. Now, if you were to do that, wouldn't you have to open the conversation up for Yadier Molina?

Yes. I don't like Molina, but he's put up great numbers and leadership for the Cards.

RedsManRick · 09-03-2012, 11:41 AM

If you want to award the MVP based on performance, Ryan Braun has to be in the conversation. I realize he won't even sniff it because of the steroid kerfuffle, but he's been one of the 3 or 4 best position players in the NL this year -- right there with Wright, McCutchen, Posey, etc.

fearofpopvol1 · 09-03-2012, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brutus

Wright and Braun aren't in the conversation unless voters are suddenly going to start giving the award to players on bad teams. And since that almost never happens, I think it's safe to say they don't stand much of a chance. And let's not forget, Braun's image is tarnished.

Neither will win the award.

You are awfully sure of yourself.

berryluther · 09-03-2012, 04:11 PM

If the season ended today I would vote for Posey, but if Jay has a September like his May he could get on a roll and win it.

redsfaninbsg · 09-03-2012, 04:15 PM

Another home run and two more RBIs for Bruce today. I don't think the guy is MVP caliber but, he's certainly a lot better than some on Redszone would have you to believe.

09-03-2012, 04:31 AM	#31
AtomicDumpling KungFu Fighter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hamilton, OH Posts: 2,330	Re: 2012 NL MVP The best player in the National League this season is Ryan Braun and for that reason he should get the MVP Award. Braun provided more value to his team than any other player -- it is not his fault his team squandered that value. Andrew McCutchen and Buster Posey have also been awesome. David Wright, Carlos Gonzalez, Aramis Ramirez, Matt Holiday and Giancarlo Stanton too. Joey Votto, Matt Kemp and Carlos Ruiz have been fantastic too but missed too much time during the season. To me the MVP is meaningless if it doesn't go to the best player in the league. There have been many occasions in the past when the award was gifted to players who played on good teams but were very obviously not anywhere close to being the best player in the league that year, and that has cheapened the award to the point of irrelevance to many people who enjoy the history of baseball. If the award does not indicate the winner was the best player then what is the point? The Reds team MVP is Johnny Cueto. He is having the best season on the team this year. If you want to limit the MVP to a position player then I would give the award to Jay Bruce. Joey Votto is obviously a much better player and played far better while he was active, but he has just missed too many games and missed those games during the key stretch when the Reds dominated the league. Jay Bruce has led the team in all the productivity stats and deserves the award, but several players have had excellent seasons.

09-03-2012, 05:08 AM	#32
Brutus Et tu, Brutus? Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 8,931	Re: 2012 NL MVP Buster Posey for me until/unless someone else earns it. __________________ "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

09-03-2012, 05:23 AM	#33
fearofpopvol1 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 8,633	Re: 2012 NL MVP To those who said David Wright isn't in the conversation is flat out wrong. Check his stats. He's played outstanding defense at a premium position (UZR rating of +10) with a .910 OPS (including the best walk rate in the NL). His home run numbers are down this year, which will probably prevent him from winning it, but his numbers are very good. I think a possible darkhorse candidate may be Michael Bourne. He's got the highest UZR rating of anyone in baseball at +21 and he leads 2nd place by 5 points. I think his batting average needs to come up a tad (currently at .285), but that could be easy. He has the most steals in the NL. Not your traditional MVP, but he's quietly having a fabulous season and on a good team no less. At this point though, it looks like it's Braun's to lose though.

09-03-2012, 06:25 AM	#34
mth123 The Big Dog Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 12,685	Re: 2012 NL MVP Tough call. McCutchen was the choice until he faded. I like Chapman, but Kimbrel is just as dominant. I don't think Braun gets a repeat after last off-season. Votto's injury knocks him out. Same with Stanton. I think Wright is not considered because of his team's record. Kemp missed half the year. Melky had a shot until the testing. Posey or Holliday might be the guys. McCutchen still has a shot as well. __________________ "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS Last edited by mth123; 09-03-2012 at 06:39 AM.

09-03-2012, 09:00 AM	#37
_Sir_Charles_ 2013 NL MVP and WS MVP Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 6,393	Re: 2012 NL MVP I still think the voters will go with the feel-good story and give it to McCutchen. Yeah, he's slumped lately, but I think he rebounds the last month. However, a monster final month...and you never know. My preseason prediction just might come true. Bruce wins with Joey in the top 5. Longshot, but fun to think about. :O) __________________

09-03-2012, 10:56 AM	#38
nate High five! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 6,774	Re: 2012 NL MVP To me, it's pretty easily Braun. .419 wOBA is Votto-lite! __________________ "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

09-03-2012, 11:05 AM	#40
nate High five! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 6,774	Re: 2012 NL MVP I can't see Bruce or Ludwick in the MVP conversation. If we're talking non-Votto Reds, I'd say BP or Cueto. However, I think they're probably not realistically in the mix. __________________ "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

09-03-2012, 11:41 AM	#42
RedsManRick Stat Wanker Hodiernus Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 14,919	Re: 2012 NL MVP If you want to award the MVP based on performance, Ryan Braun has to be in the conversation. I realize he won't even sniff it because of the steroid kerfuffle, but he's been one of the 3 or 4 best position players in the NL this year -- right there with Wright, McCutchen, Posey, etc. __________________ Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

09-03-2012, 04:11 PM	#44
berryluther Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 197	Re: 2012 NL MVP If the season ended today I would vote for Posey, but if Jay has a September like his May he could get on a roll and win it.

09-03-2012, 04:15 PM	#45
redsfaninbsg Posting from Southwest VA Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 669	Re: 2012 NL MVP Another home run and two more RBIs for Bruce today. I don't think the guy is MVP caliber but, he's certainly a lot better than some on Redszone would have you to believe. __________________ This is the ol Left Hander rounding third and heading for home.

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