Ryan Hanigan??????????

[wlf WV]

Except Votto,Bruce,and Phillips ,I believe he is the most valuable everyday player on the Reds.I also think he is the most undervalued and underpaid player in baseball.I also believe we misuse his bat,by keeping him batting 8th in the lineup.

I think his skills are comparable to Yadier Molina's .Molina makes 96 mil for 10 years.Hanigan makes 4 mil for 3 years.Baker's reluctance to bat him anywhere except 7th or 8th(no matter your opinion) I believe suppresses his batting potential.

It amazes me he hasn't gone to arbitration.Can he file for arbitration ,even though he has a contract?

[westofyou]

Molina has been starting since he was 22, he has 3500 PA's and is 2 years younger than Hanigan and has more pop and is a more athletic player, Hanigan has just over 1000 PA's and is 30.

I like Hanigan but as far as money goes he and Molina live in a different neighborhood and will continue to do so.

[Hoosier Red]

Nope. Arbitration only exists for players with a certain amount of playing experience who are not yet eligible for free agency. Teams sign players to longer term contracts to avoid the arbitration process with them. It's a good deal for the club usually, but it also gives the player some stability.

Hanigan is indeed very valuable, but I think he's particularly valuable in 8th spot because he has a good eye(and draws a lot of walks) but doesn't have a great deal of power or a particularly high batting average.

Obviously it's a bigger deal in the NL, but a batter who can get on base is of particular importance in the 8 spot to make sure the pitcher isn't leading off the next inning.

[Vottomatic]

This offense could be soooo much better if we had a manager who knew how to maximize it's potential. Instead, we get lineups like today with a triple A shortstop batting 2nd, simply because in Dusty's lineups the SS or CFer HAVE TO BE near the top of the lineup. Made zero sense.

[westofyou]

maybe some of these guys do good because of some of the decisions Dusty makes concerning them that are not as transparent as where a guy us slotted in the batting order.

There is more than one way to maximize talent.

[Wonderful Monds]

Originally Posted by westofyou

maybe some of these guys do good because of some of the decisions Dusty makes concerning them that are not as transparent as where a guy us slotted in the batting order.

There is more than one way to maximize talent.

I agree on this point and in general on Dusty, though admittedly I do think the CF/SS stuff is a little odd.

[AtomicDumpling]

Maybe there actually is a good reason for putting Cozart and Stubbs at the top of the lineup.

It does seem like we have reached the bottom of the excuse barrel when we have to resort to saying something like "I don't know what it is and nobody else does either, but there must be a good reason."

Maybe it is something paranormal or otherworldly.

Maybe Dusty inhabits a Bizzaro world where if you do the reverse of what the statistical probabilities say you should then everything will cancel out.

Maybe Dusty is using George Costanza's strategy of doing the exact opposite of what you would normally do and things will work out better. So far, so good!

Maybe Dusty's strategy is to build the team's confidence by showing them no matter how poorly I assemble the lineup we still can't lose!

[AtomicDumpling]

Originally Posted by wlf WV

Except Votto,Bruce,and Phillips ,I believe he is the most valuable everyday player on the Reds.I also think he is the most undervalued and underpaid player in baseball.I also believe we misuse his bat,by keeping him batting 8th in the lineup.

I think his skills are comparable to Yadier Molina's .Molina makes 96 mil for 10 years.Hanigan makes 4 mil for 3 years.Baker's reluctance to bat him anywhere except 7th or 8th(no matter your opinion) I believe suppresses his batting potential.

It amazes me he hasn't gone to arbitration.Can he file for arbitration ,even though he has a contract?

I agree that Hanigan is an under-appreciated weapon in the Reds' arsenal. His contributions on defense and in handling the pitching staff can't be properly quantified statistically. He is a very valuable and important part of the reason why this team is winning.

[forfreelin04]

Originally Posted by westofyou

maybe some of these guys do good because of some of the decisions Dusty makes concerning them that are not as transparent as where a guy us slotted in the batting order.

There is more than one way to maximize talent.

West, your on the money. I would argue that Dusty's managerial skills far surpass most when it comes to managing personalities, team camaraderie, and playing time. I think his track record of success supports this.

However, he manages lineups as if the game hasn't evolved since he played. He places stakes in the ground in certain things like batting the catcher 8th. It's his own paradigm of thought. It often works out in the win column, but I think they win despite his lineups in some games. I fear that in a 5 game series against comparable or better pitching these stakes he sets in the ground will ultimately be detrimental to the club. I hope I am wrong, but I worry.


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[PuffyPig]

Hannigan is a nice catcher and likely underrated, but he's miles behind Molina in pretty much everything.

If you batted Hannigan 2nd, his OBA would likely dip 40 or so points.

[dfs]

Hanigan is the reds that I like to watch the most. It's nice when somebody else appreciates your favorite player.

Hanigan was in the reds minor league system forever and I believe was actually released during one of his stays in AA. Like Todd Frazier, he arrived at the major league level at a seasoned age. He may not get a ton better than what he is, but what can do is pretty valuable.

It may be that if you batted Hanigan 2nd his OBP would drop 40 points, but boy would I like to find out and I'm a Dusty supporter.

[757690]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

Maybe there actually is a good reason for putting Cozart and Stubbs at the top of the lineup.

It does seem like we have reached the bottom of the excuse barrel when we have to resort to saying something like "I don't know what it is and nobody else does either, but there must be a good reason."

Maybe it is something paranormal or otherworldly.

Maybe Dusty inhabits a Bizzaro world where if you do the reverse of what the statistical probabilities say you should then everything will cancel out.

Maybe Dusty is using George Costanza's strategy of doing the exact opposite of what you would normally do and things will work out better. So far, so good!

Maybe Dusty's strategy is to build the team's confidence by showing them no matter how poorly I assemble the lineup we still can't lose!

Or maybe keeping players in well defined roles is more important to the team winning games than who hits at the top of the lineup? This season could be used as supreme evidence that lineups really don't matter much.

[cincinnati chili]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

Arbitration only exists for players with a certain amount of playing experience who are not yet eligible for free agency.

It doesn't happen often, but a player with 6 or more years of service whose contract expires can elect arbitration over free agency, provided that his team tenders him a contract.

This happened with Roger Clemens late in his career. The Astros (I think) were sure he would opt for free agency so they tendered Clemens a contract, knowing that they would get a couple draft picks if he opted for free agency. Clemens decided to go to arbitration, shocking his team and foiling their plans for cost certainty and a couple draft picks.

I'm not totally downloaded on the latest CBA, but I'm pretty sure this is still the rule.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by cincinnati chili

It doesn't happen often, but a player with 6 or more years of service whose contract expires can elect arbitration over free agency, provided that his team tenders him a contract.

This happened with Roger Clemens late in his career. The Astros (I think) were sure he would opt for free agency so they tendered Clemens a contract, knowing that they would get a couple draft picks if he opted for free agency. Clemens decided to go to arbitration, shocking his team and foiling their plans for cost certainty and a couple draft picks.

I'm not totally downloaded on the latest CBA, but I'm pretty sure this is still the rule.

IIRC Greg Maddux did this, and got a huge award in arbitration (though I think they settled prior to arbitration, but the threat was there). The Braves were then forced to trade, IIRC, Millwood to afford Maddux?

[wlf WV]

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

Hannigan is a nice catcher and likely underrated, but he's miles behind Molina in pretty much everything.

If you batted Hannigan 2nd, his OBA would likely dip 40 or so points.

I beg to differ.I believe he would get more pitches to hit,and he makes contact.It is funny to me that we hate bunting ,yet are ready to sacrifice Hanigan's batting skills just to supposedly keep the pitcher from leading off???

Just when I thought I was grasping sabermetrics..........