UK Football 2013

[dabvu2498]

Originally Posted by Joseph

When you lose to the fourth [at best] public college in the state you know you have serious problems.

Fourth??? Kentucky only has 3 FBS programs.

[Boston Red]

Originally Posted by dabvu2498

Fourth??? Kentucky only has 3 FBS programs.

I assume he meant academically and put UK, UL and one of Eastern or Murray ahead of WKU.

[Joseph]

Originally Posted by Boston Red

I assume he meant academically and put UK, UL and one of Eastern or Murray ahead of WKU.

That would be correct.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Joseph

When you lose to the fourth [at best] public college in the state you know you have serious problems.

Seriously, how does any "real" div 1 team lose to Western Kentucky? Let's look at the caliber of athletes they have. According to Scout.com their 2012 recruiting class ranked 118 out of 124 Div 1 schools. In 2010 they ranked 119 out of 120. Right, 2nd to last. They jumped to #85 in 2011 and just to complete the 4 year picture they ranked # 78 in 2009. How can UK possibly lose to to school with that lack of talent?

[Boston Red]

It's bad, but it's not exactly the worst we've seen out of some of the major conference/state schools this year. Colorado losing to Colorado State and Cal State-Sacramento and then getting bludgeoned by a pretty average Fresno team (wasn't it 45-0 in the second quarter?!?) is much worse. Indiana losing at home to Ball State (a team WKU is favored to beat this coming weekend) is worse. Arkansas losing to UL-Monroe seemed as bad or worse, although they seem to actually have a pretty decent team.

Kentucky has no business losing to Western, but Western is a pretty solid Sun Belt squad.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Boston Red

Kentucky has no business losing to Western, but Western is a pretty solid Sun Belt squad.

I tip my cap to them if they can put together a winning prgram with 118 and 119 rated recruiting classes. No way an SEC team should lose to that sort of talent. A Big Ten team losing to Ball St isn't quite as much of a stretch as they are the 4th best football conference in America

[Boston Red]

Do you think Scout really puts much effort into deciding who is ranked #118 and who is ranked #95. I can't imagine they spend much time evaluating those players.

It is kind of sad that outside of a few players, I don't think there's much of a talent difference between UK and WKU, but WKU does make up for their high school recruiting deficiencies by picking up some transfers. For example, one of the DBs who was giving UK fits all night was a Florida transfer.

BTW, Western is hosting Southern Miss this weekend. Not sure why I thought they were hosting Ball U.

[Hoosier Red]

I agree with Boston Red. The difference between classes #80 to #118 is likely smaller than the difference between classes #1 and #15.

Schools like UK and IU are always going to be susceptible to the smaller in-state schools unless the talent (and experience) differential is overwhelming.

The game represents a huge opportunity for the smaller school. It's probably one of the largest crowds that team will play all season and it's an opportunity to show the big school why they made a mistake in recruiting.

That said it should still be an upset when these games happen. Losing three in a row to the in state MAC school is completely embarrassing. So it could be worse UK.

[bucksfan2]

I don't really follow recruiting outside of checking what OSU gets but how much talent is there in KY and where does that talent go? I know there are several top programs in Louisville but for the past 5 years of so neither UK or UL have been any good. I know Highlands in NKY has some top level players from time to time but occasionally you hear of them going to ND or UC but thats about it.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

I agree with Boston Red. The difference between classes #80 to #118 is likely smaller than the difference between classes #1 and #15.

Schools like UK and IU are always going to be susceptible to the smaller in-state schools unless the talent (and experience) differential is overwhelming.

The game represents a huge opportunity for the smaller school. It's probably one of the largest crowds that team will play all season and it's an opportunity to show the big school why they made a mistake in recruiting.

That said it should still be an upset when these games happen. Losing three in a row to the in state MAC school is completely embarrassing. So it could be worse UK.

So what if their cless is 80th? They still have no business beating UK. My guess is the Hilltopper's players were not even recruited by UK and if they were offered a UK scholarship or a WKU, I'm sure the athlete would jump for Lexington

[dabvu2498]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

So what if their cless is 80th? They still have no business beating UK. My guess is the Hilltopper's players were not even recruited by UK and if they were offered a UK scholarship or a WKU, I'm sure the athlete would jump for Lexington

These types of games happen (or come verrrrrrrrry close to happening) almost every year.

Here are a few that come to the top of my head:

3 from this year already (ULM-Arky and Auburn)
Utah State-Auburn last year
Jacksonville St.-Ole Miss (Loss to an FCS team)
UAB-UT a couple years ago, Wyoming-UT, Memphis-UT with P. Manning
Any number of Vanderbilt losses (Army, MTSU, Duke come to mind)

Approached as a Vandy fan, there have been a few times when Vandy has won SEC games they had no business winning: (@ UT 2005, @ UGa 2006, @ USCe 2007)

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by dabvu2498

These types of games happen (or come verrrrrrrrry close to happening) almost every year.

Here are a few that come to the top of my head:

3 from this year already (ULM-Arky and Auburn)
Utah State-Auburn last year
Jacksonville St.-Ole Miss (Loss to an FCS team)
UAB-UT a couple years ago, Wyoming-UT, Memphis-UT with P. Manning
Any number of Vanderbilt losses (Army, MTSU, Duke come to mind)

Approached as a Vandy fan, there have been a few times when Vandy has won SEC games they had no business winning: (@ UT 2005, @ UGa 2006, @ USCe 2007)

No question that it does indeed happen and that's what makes college sports so much fun

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

So what if their cless is 80th? They still have no business beating UK. My guess is the Hilltopper's players were not even recruited by UK and if they were offered a UK scholarship or a WKU, I'm sure the athlete would jump for Lexington

Well that's the point. UK hasn't had many top 20 classes themselves. I looked at the Rivals rankings;* UK was 61st in 2011 and 59th in 2012.

I bet you're right that no players from WKU were offered scholarships to UK. I'd also be willing to wager that they were quite amped to show what a mistake UK made in not offering them scholarships

Were it the case where Kentucky had a huge talent differential, it wouldn't really matter. But given that UK had slightly more talent, the motivation and scheme can make up a small gap.

*I don't believe Rivals rankings are superior in any way, but rather knew where to find them and knew I wouldn't have to pay for the privilege.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

Well that's the point. UK hasn't had many top 20 classes themselves. I looked at the Rivals rankings;* UK was 61st in 2011 and 59th in 2012.

I bet you're right that no players from WKU were offered scholarships to UK. I'd also be willing to wager that they were quite amped to show what a mistake UK made in not offering them scholarships

Were it the case where Kentucky had a huge talent differential, it wouldn't really matter. But given that UK had slightly more talent, the motivation and scheme can make up a small gap.

*I don't believe Rivals rankings are superior in any way, but rather knew where to find them and knew I wouldn't have to pay for the privilege.

Even if UK was getting middling talent at 59 or 60, it should trump bottom 5% no problem

[Scrap Irony]

Originally Posted by Boston Red

IKentucky has no business losing to Western, but Western is a pretty solid Sun Belt squad.

Fwiw, WKU should have gone to a bowl last season. Bowling Green is a fairly solid football area in a state that normally doesn't produce all that much upper end talent. Due to lesser admission standards, WKU also tends to get the possible Prop 48 casualties or near-casualties from Louisville and northern Tennessee. (This is similar to the Memphis and Middle Tennessee State teams of the early 90s. Sometimes, a group of players slip through. As a result, many athletes get ignored or simply want to stay close to home rather than risk a greyshirt somewhere else. WKU is also active with high Division I transfers (in both football and basketball) and in Florida high school circles.

They're working their way to being a pretty solid Division I football team, as evidenced not only by beating Kentucky, but by playing Alabama pretty well in Tuscaloosa, 35-0. The final score doesn't show how close it really was, as Bama got a closing seconds TD. Offensively, the Tops and the Crimson Tide were within three first downs and 100 total yards of each other. They also beat Austin Peay 49-10, who also lost to VaTech by around the same score.

Sure, they're not great, but it's not like they're pushovers either.