NFL Officiating

[757690]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

As for the play last night it should have been an INT but I can't say with conviction that the regular refs would have made the call that way.

I can.

It was a tough call, but that wasn't the problem. The biggest problem with the call was that two refs called it differently at the same time. One signaled touchdown, one signaled interception. That has happened a few times in the past, and when that happens, the umpire huddles with everyone, reviews it and the right call is made.

That is not what happened last night. The umpire incorrectly went with the touchdown call immediately, ignored the interception call, and then ruled there wasn't enough evidence to overturn it. That's not the proper procedure, and the reason why it was such a mess.

[757690]

Originally Posted by Todd Gack

I remember joking last year that most games were decided by some very questionable calls and not really on-field performance. I don't see how this year is much different.

That's like saying in the 1990's that the Reds pitchers and defense gave up some runs, then in the 2000's they also gave up some runs, so nothing changed.

[757690]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

The thing is that last play was not the only crappy call in last night's game. In fact it was only the capper on a night of crappy calls. No way Wilson was roughed on his INT a few minutes earlier. No way Okung was holding on a previous play. There were countless calls that were horrible. It became downright unwatchable after awhile

And that has been true for most games. Why watch games when you have zero confidence that the team that plays the best will win?

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by 757690

I can.

It was a tough call, but that wasn't the problem. The biggest problem with the call was that two refs called it differently at the same time. One signaled touchdown, one signaled interception. That has happened a few times in the past, and when that happens, the umpire huddles with everyone, reviews it and the right call is made.

That is not what happened last night. The umpire incorrectly went with the touchdown call immediately, ignored the interception call, and then ruled there wasn't enough evidence to overturn it. That's not the proper procedure, and the reason why it was such a mess.

The referee should have huddled everyone and made the final call himself. I still don't know if it was "reviewed" as Jerry Seaman said that it's not a call that can be reviewed by replay. It was botched in every sense

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

The referee should have huddled everyone and made the final call himself. I still don't know if it was "reviewed" as Jerry Seaman said that it's not a call that can be reviewed by replay. It was botched in every sense

But aren't all scoring plays now automatically reviewed?

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by 757690

I can.

It was a tough call, but that wasn't the problem. The biggest problem with the call was that two refs called it differently at the same time. One signaled touchdown, one signaled interception. That has happened a few times in the past, and when that happens, the umpire huddles with everyone, reviews it and the right call is made.

That is not what happened last night. The umpire incorrectly went with the touchdown call immediately, ignored the interception call, and then ruled there wasn't enough evidence to overturn it. That's not the proper procedure, and the reason why it was such a mess.

I agree that there should have been a huddle and the call shouldn't have been made right away. However after watching the play if the one official has TD and the other had INT I don't know if the outcome changes. Its my understanding that simultaneous possession goes to the offensive player. Once the play has been completed and the officials deem simultaneous possession it doesn't matter who ends up with the ball. I have seen many times when both an offensive player and defensive player have the ball, go to the ground, the defensive player wrestles the ball away but the catch is awarded to the WR.

Watching the replay for the first time it appeared as if the DB first had the ball in the air with Tate having an arm on the ball. As they went to the ground both players were wrestling for possession of the ball. When they went to the ground the DB had leverage and pulled the ball away from Tate. I can't be certain and say the incorrect call after the fact. I can see the argument made for simultaneous possession and wouldn't be shocked if the regular refs would have made that call after the fact.

I said above it isn't the actual game calls that are bothering me about the refs its their handling of the situation and letting things get out of control. Make the call, stick to your guns, and avoid the coaches and players. The regular refs, regardless of a right or wrong call do that.

[Todd Gack]

Originally Posted by 757690

That's like saying in the 1990's that the Reds pitchers and defense gave up some runs, then in the 2000's they also gave up some runs, so nothing changed.

I know, these refs aren't as good. But there were plenty of games in the past decided by crappy calls. Let's not act as if the normal refs were great at their job too.

[Todd Gack]

Originally Posted by 757690

I can.

It was a tough call, but that wasn't the problem. The biggest problem with the call was that two refs called it differently at the same time. One signaled touchdown, one signaled interception. That has happened a few times in the past, and when that happens, the umpire huddles with everyone, reviews it and the right call is made.

That is not what happened last night. The umpire incorrectly went with the touchdown call immediately, ignored the interception call, and then ruled there wasn't enough evidence to overturn it. That's not the proper procedure, and the reason why it was such a mess.

So would the replacement refs have ruled Calvin Johnson's TD a catch vs the Bears last year? What about Bustin's "hard hit" on the Tampa Bay QB that happened like 4 years ago. Regular refs make horrible calls ALL THE TIME.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

I agree that there should have been a huddle and the call shouldn't have been made right away. However after watching the play if the one official has TD and the other had INT I don't know if the outcome changes. Its my understanding that simultaneous possession goes to the offensive player. Once the play has been completed and the officials deem simultaneous possession it doesn't matter who ends up with the ball. I have seen many times when both an offensive player and defensive player have the ball, go to the ground, the defensive player wrestles the ball away but the catch is awarded to the WR.

Watching the replay for the first time it appeared as if the DB first had the ball in the air with Tate having an arm on the ball. As they went to the ground both players were wrestling for possession of the ball. When they went to the ground the DB had leverage and pulled the ball away from Tate. I can't be certain and say the incorrect call after the fact. I can see the argument made for simultaneous possession and wouldn't be shocked if the regular refs would have made that call after the fact.

I said above it isn't the actual game calls that are bothering me about the refs its their handling of the situation and letting things get out of control. Make the call, stick to your guns, and avoid the coaches and players. The regular refs, regardless of a right or wrong call do that.

By rule it was not a simultaneous catch. Jennings caught it and Tate got an arm on it as he was going down. By rule that does not qualify as a simultaneous catch:

Rule 8 - Section 3 - Article 1 - Item 5: Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Chip R

But aren't all scoring plays now automatically reviewed?

Sure they're reviewed but not everything can be looked at. For instance they couldn't look at whether Tate pushed off. In this case they can only look at whether the ball hit the ground or whether a player was out of bounds while catching it.

[kaldaniels]

I'd like to give a shout out to sportsbook.com for refunding my bet on GB.

[Playadlc]

ESPN is just throwing gas on the fire with about 4 referee articles on the front page headlines.

They even have an article about how much money sports bettors lost. Like this is the first bad call to ever cost people money.

Everyone needs to back off.

[VR]

I don't know....I certainly think they both grabbed the ball at the same time, the defender just appeared to have 2/3 possession.
The officials in the replay booth were not replacement, they are permanent officials.

[OesterPoster]

Originally Posted by Todd Gack

So would the replacement refs have ruled Calvin Johnson's TD a catch vs the Bears last year? What about Bustin's "hard hit" on the Tampa Bay QB that happened like 4 years ago. Regular refs make horrible calls ALL THE TIME.

True, but do the regular refs march off incorrect yardage on penalties? Do they incorrectly award extra timeouts? Do they apply incorrect rules interpretations? Maybe once a year, maybe once every other year. But this year, it's happening multiple times every single week...sometimes more than once in a single game.

[Slyder]

Originally Posted by VR

I don't know....I certainly think they both grabbed the ball at the same time, the defender just appeared to have 2/3 possession.
The officials in the replay booth were not replacement, they are permanent officials.

The Green Bay player got it first and established possession THEN Tate reached in. IMO.

Worst blunder since Snow Job.