Postseason Scoreboard watching....

[mattfeet]

Originally Posted by Brutus

He was at most a step away from where it landed and he bailed out probably 2-3 seconds before it fell.

2-3 seconds? C'mon man. That ball was NOT 60-90' in the air when he bailed out.

[reds1869]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Protest denied by MLB.

There's a shocker.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by mattfeet

2-3 seconds? C'mon man. That ball was NOT 60-90' in the air when he bailed out.

Dude, I'm watching this replay over and over. Go to MLB.com. He stops backtracking at the 6-second mark right as it goes from 5 to 6 seconds, and the ball lands at the 8-second mark. That's two seconds.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Brutus

Dude, watch the replay. He was literally waiting on the ball and then ran out from under it thinking his LF was calling him off.

He never even had to sprint to get to the ball. It was literally a slow back pedal.

That was ordinary as ordinary can be for a starting major league shortstop.

I think we all saw the replay. The key part of the call was the timing, which was after the infielder gave up on the play. The location of the ball makes your argument as poor as the call. The infield fly call was too late to be taken seriously. He blew it, but I imagine the expedient thing will be done and the protest will be denied.

[Dom Heffner]

Brutus, the rule says immediately. For the benefit of the runners. Period.

It says it again under the rule as a comment.

End.Of. Story.

The infield fly is in no sense to be considered an appeal play. The umpire’s judgment must govern, and the decision should be made immediately.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by traderumor

I think we all saw the replay. The key part of the call was the timing, which was after the infielder gave up on the play. The location of the ball makes your argument as poor as the call. The infield fly call was too late to be taken seriously. He blew it, but I imagine the expedient thing will be done and the protest will be denied.

The rules say nothing about when it has to be apparent that it's an infield fly. Again, the entire premise of your argument is false. It doesn't exist. It's not a consideration in the rules.

It can be apparent 10 seconds before an infielder catches it or one second. It does not matter when it's apparent.

[George Anderson]

The rule of thumb on an infield fly is wait until the ball is at its peak, look where the fielder is and if his feet are reasonably still then call in an infield fly. I don't think his feet were reasonably still.


I think where Holbrook screwed up was in his judgement. Keeping in mind the spirit of the rule where the rule wont allow balls to be intentionally dropped for a double play, no way would a fielder that far out intentionally drop a ball to get a double play.


I have had games where whether it was the wind blowing or the fielders were just horrible, I wouldn't call it an infield fly even if it was ready to land on the pitchers rubber. The fielder has to be camped out under the ball and he wasn't.

[Dom Heffner]

Immediately.

You're reading all these parts of the rule, read that word.

[Dom Heffner]

If you have to wait to see if it's routine, it isn't routine.

The rule is for the runner, not the SS.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

Brutus, the rule says immediately. For the benefit of the runners. Period.

It says it again under the rule as a comment.

End.Of. Story.

The infield fly is in no sense to be considered an appeal play. The umpire’s judgment must govern, and the decision should be made immediately.

No, the rules say immediately "when it becomes apparent." It can become apparent right before the ball drops.

I don't know why that's so difficult. It doesn't matter when it becomes apparent. And the comments of the rules also say that it only has to be judged that the infielder could have made a play on it regardless of why he didn't or why an outfielder makes a play.

[mattfeet]

Ill be back in a few minutes.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

If you have to wait to see if it's routine, it isn't routine.

The rule is for the runner, not the SS.

Your interpretation of the rules is incorrect. I don't know how else to say it. But that's not how umpires are taught to enforce the rule.

The umpire is taught to wait, and if at any point before the ball drops he believes the ball could have been caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, then it's an infield fly. He only has to make the call when it's apparent, and it does not have to be apparent (so long as the infielder is giving an ordinary effort) until right before the ball drops.

Jogging or back pedaling is generally considered ordinary effort by interpretation. That's how it's always been taught in classes and how umpires judge effort. If an infielder doesn't have to sprint to the ball or isn't going to have to lay out to get under it, it's considered an ordinary effort. You're not arguing with me, you're actually arguing with how umpires are trained to enforce the rule.

[GullyFoyle]

It's sounds like (the point is) that all umps would make the same call based off of their official training. This (is) obviously false. Based on feedback from other umps here and on TV.

(edited for clarity, but Brutus got my point)

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by GullyFoyle

It's sounds like that all umps would make the same call based off of their official training. This obviously false. Based from other umps here and on TV.

No, that's not what it is I'm saying. I'm saying all umps be instructed to until it's apparent. There's still some subjectivity as to what constitutes ordinary effort. I said "generally" if an infielder doesn't have to sprint to get to a ball, it's considered ordinary by umpires. That's typically how it's instructed, but it's not a hard and fast rule. But not every umpire is going to rule that way. Waiting to make that call is absolutely within the proper training though. It doesn't have to be immediately apparent, it only has to be immediately called *when* it's determined that it's apparent. The rule doesn't dictate how soon in the play it has to be apparent for a play to be considered 'ordinary effort.'

[Wonderful Monds]

That delay was 19 minutes? I knew it was a bit, but it didn't seem nearly that long.