Jamie Garcia off postseason roster

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

I hate when athletes pull this crap. You create an environment that penalizes guys for not playing through pain and then you rip a guy when he does it and it turns out he's more injured than he thought. You can't have it both ways.

If you want to rip somebody, rip Matheny and the Cards medical staff.

The funny part of it is that it sounds like Garcia was surprised as well, the reaction is as if he knew and tried anyhow. I agree with you completely. It is probably showing some internal personal issue with Garcia since they obviously don't have his back.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

I hate when athletes pull this crap. You create an environment that penalizes guys for not playing through pain and then you rip a guy when he does it and it turns out he's more injured than he thought. You can't have it both ways.

If you want to rip somebody, rip Matheny and the Cards medical staff.

Why would you rip Matheny and the Cards medical staff for not knowing about an injury when there was no evidence of the injury? Is Mike Matheny supposed to be clairvoyant?

I don't mind a pitcher trying to pitch through an injury. However, I think it's a different situation when a pitcher is hiding their injury and it isn't known to the club. Someone mentioned it earlier about Chris Carpenter pitching through an injury. I would still question the Cardinals pitching an injured Chris Carpenter out there but at the same time, Carpenter doesn't hide his injuries. This allows the club to have other viable options available if there is a sign of trouble.

I don't see the issue with team mates and the GM being angry in this situation.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

.... Carpenter doesn't hide his injuries......

Except from his son, with whom he experiences a comunication problem with, or so I gather......

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

Why would you rip Matheny and the Cards medical staff for not knowing about an injury when there was no evidence of the injury? Is Mike Matheny supposed to be clairvoyant?

I don't mind a pitcher trying to pitch through an injury. However, I think it's a different situation when a pitcher is hiding their injury and it isn't known to the club. Someone mentioned it earlier about Chris Carpenter pitching through an injury. I would still question the Cardinals pitching an injured Chris Carpenter out there but at the same time, Carpenter doesn't hide his injuries. This allows the club to have other viable options available if there is a sign of trouble.

I don't see the issue with team mates and the GM being angry in this situation.

Because from what I read, Garcia wasn't sure himself what was going on. Regardless, to throw this kind of internal stuff out there in the press is bush league, especially in the middle of the playoffs. Besides throwing your teammate under the bus, you also have the possibility of management covering their respective hind ends. Of course, I'm sure there are 100 reasons why this is exactly how a team should handle this situation in the "We Invented the Game" Cardinals Handbook.

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

Why would you rip Matheny and the Cards medical staff for not knowing about an injury when there was no evidence of the injury? Is Mike Matheny supposed to be clairvoyant?

I don't mind a pitcher trying to pitch through an injury. However, I think it's a different situation when a pitcher is hiding their injury and it isn't known to the club. Someone mentioned it earlier about Chris Carpenter pitching through an injury. I would still question the Cardinals pitching an injured Chris Carpenter out there but at the same time, Carpenter doesn't hide his injuries. This allows the club to have other viable options available if there is a sign of trouble.

I don't see the issue with team mates and the GM being angry in this situation.

Because of numerous things going on here:

1. There's a double standard where if certain athletes play through pain, they're warriors (as stated so well by someone else earlier). With other athletes, they're supposedly hurting the team for playing with pain. Can't have it both ways. Garcia seemed surprised that his injury was really bad, and was trying to play through pain. He even stated that he'd been feeling better lately.

2. So, Garcia didn't know he was injured badly, and his manager, teammates, and I assume management threw him under the bus with their negative comments.

Way to go team.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Because from what I read, Garcia wasn't sure himself what was going on. Regardless, to throw this kind of internal stuff out there in the press is bush league, especially in the middle of the playoffs. Besides throwing your teammate under the bus, you also have the possibility of management covering their respective hind ends. Of course, I'm sure there are 100 reasons why this is exactly how a team should handle this situation in the "We Invented the Game" Cardinals Handbook.

So if the press asks, in response to what Garcia said, about the injury, the GM or anyone else for that matter shouldn't say anything? I'm sorry, the kid deserves to be thrown under the bus for his actions. He's a head case and has proven time and time again that he is a mentally weak individual. I don't feel professional athletes should be treated like their in little league and given orange slices at the end of the game. Garcia is a hefty investment by the Cards and if he can't handle it or he can't tell the organization that there might be an injury, it's on him. I might sound cruel but you don't win championships by babying along players. That's what AAA is for. This is the big leagues, act like it.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

Because of numerous things going on here:

1. There's a double standard where if certain athletes play through pain, they're warriors (as stated so well by someone else earlier). With other athletes, they're supposedly hurting the team for playing with pain. Can't have it both ways. Garcia seemed surprised that his injury was really bad, and was trying to play through pain. He even stated that he'd been feeling better lately.

2. So, Garcia didn't know he was injured badly, and his manager, teammates, and I assume management threw him under the bus with their negative comments.

Way to go team.

1. What double standard is going on here? It's not a double standard if the player tells the team of an injury and tries to pitch with it (which a good majority of players do). It's completely different if the player is purposely trying to cover up injury. I would be highly critical of any player who does that because it's ultimately hurting the team.

2. If the guy had a hang nail, he should have let management know instead of almost throwing away game two. Saying that it's frustrating isn't exactly throwing a player under the bus. As a GM, I'm sure it is frustrating. He isn't saying Garcia is a mentally weak individual who will never "get it". That would be throwing someone under the bus.

Oh and how is this throwing a person under the bus:

"First baseman Allen Craig, responding to a question unrelated to Garcia, called the game "the closest thing to a must-win we've played this year."

umm... IT WAS A DAMN QUESTION UNRELATED TO GARCIA. My god.. some of you folks are searching for things when it's not there.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

I'm sorry, the kid deserves to be thrown under the bus for his actions. He's a head case and has proven time and time again that he is a mentally weak individual. I don't feel professional athletes should be treated like their in little league and given orange slices at the end of the game. Garcia is a hefty investment by the Cards and if he can't handle it or he can't tell the organization that there might be an injury, it's on him. I might sound cruel but you don't win championships by babying along players. That's what AAA is for. This is the big leagues, act like it.

So, when Berkman refused a rehabiltaion assignment to the minors, and demanded to play immrediately on the big league roster, was he subject to the same treatment from fans, teammates and management?

To summarize, Lance posted a .179/.333/.308/.641 slsah line in the 2nd half, and came back at a time when the Cards were still in contention for the division title. By the time he went back on the DL, the Cards were 8 games out where they remained, more or less, for the balance of the season.

Did he also deserve to be thrown under the bus.

You could tell from watching him play that he wasn't able to contribute.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

"First baseman Allen Craig, responding to a question unrelated to Garcia, called the game "the closest thing to a must-win we've played this year."

Ahhhh Craig, you just played the one game play-in game with Atlanta. I think that was closer to a "must-win" game.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

So if the press asks, in response to what Garcia said, about the injury, the GM or anyone else for that matter shouldn't say anything? I'm sorry, the kid deserves to be thrown under the bus for his actions. He's a head case and has proven time and time again that he is a mentally weak individual. I don't feel professional athletes should be treated like their in little league and given orange slices at the end of the game. Garcia is a hefty investment by the Cards and if he can't handle it or he can't tell the organization that there might be an injury, it's on him. I might sound cruel but you don't win championships by babying along players. That's what AAA is for. This is the big leagues, act like it.

I want the code sections from the Cardinals "We Invented the Game" handbook so I can compare to your response, please. I assume you have the electronic version on your computer?

As for your red herrings, the issue isn't "babying," its professionalism and keeping internal strife out of the media spotlight, esp. in a game they won 12-4. If folks had an issue, it could have been handled behind closed doors. Immature, unprofessional types air dirty laundry in public.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

So, when Berkman refused a rehabiltaion assignment to the minors, and demanded to play immrediately on the big league roster, was he subject to the same treatment from fans, teammates and management?

To summarize, Lance posted a .179/.333/.308/.641 slsah line in the 2nd half, and came back at a time when the Cards were still in contention for the division title. By the time he went back on the DL, the Cards were 8 games out where they remained, more or less, for the balance of the season.

Did he also deserve to be thrown under the bus.

You could tell from watching him play that he wasn't able to contribute.

I have no idea why it's so hard to understand this. I'll repeat it. There is a clear difference between a player with a known injury and a player trying to conceal an injury. In Berkman's case, his injury is known. He didn't try to conceal anything. There was enough room on the roster to where he could play in the majors without a rehab assignment. It was something the Cardinals planned for. It's not even close to the same situation as Garcia. Garcia put the team in a bind by not disclosing his injury. Plain and simple. I would give props to Garcia if it was a KNOWN issue that he was trying to gut through. Knowing the problem would have given the Cardinals other viable options and management the ability to keep an eagle eye on him. Garcia failed in this regard.

[Chip R]

It appears these guys don't know why everyone seems to hate the Cardinals.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...rticleid=18682

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

I have no idea why it's so hard to understand this. I'll repeat it. There is a clear difference between a player with a known injury and a player trying to conceal an injury. In Berkman's case, his injury is known. He didn't try to conceal anything. There was enough room on the roster to where he could play in the majors without a rehab assignment. It was something the Cardinals planned for. It's not even close to the same situation as Garcia. Garcia put the team in a bind by not disclosing his injury. Plain and simple. I would give props to Garcia if it was a KNOWN issue that he was trying to gut through. Knowing the problem would have given the Cardinals other viable options and management the ability to keep an eagle eye on him. Garcia failed in this regard.

You may want to re-read my post, prior to you wondering why "it's so hard to undestand this".

I never said they were the exact same situation.

I simply said that Berkman refused a minor league rehabilitation assignment to the detriment of his team. That's the common stream. Both him and Garcia placed themselves before the team.

Different situations, but the same selfish result.