Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

A guy probably needs to be good at both sides of things, but Dusty is terrible at the actual BASEBALL part. Always has been.

Terrible? Maybe I'm not paying enough attention to managerial decisions, but from what I've seen, Dusty basically runs the same station-to-station SABR friendly offense we all talk about. I don't know what radically different lineup construction would've produced more runs, but I always felt like he did the best with the pieces he had. Unless I missed a whole slew of horrible decisions this year, the over the top criticism just seems like a bad confirmation bias to me.

[MWM]

Originally Posted by wheels

I like Dusty Baker as a human being, and a regular season manager. He's great at keeping people together over the long grind.

It's just that his tactical mistakes are far too frequent for a club that seems to now be a regular playoff contender.

Nothing against Dusty, but the Reds need a next level type of a guy.

Exactly what I was going to say. He was good for this team throughout the season. He got the most out of them day in day out for 162 games. But this team doesn't need that anymore. They've got the horses to win high 90s games for the next few years and they're more experienced now and have the right guys in the cubhouse to keep them playing well for the season.

This team has now evolved and has "graduated" to where they need a cerebral guy who can come in and be smart. Dusty has his good qualities, but I've yet to see anyone claim he's anything other than a pretty poor tactical manager. He's not THE reason the Reds lost this series, but he really made some big blunders that very few managers would have made. Bochy managed circles around him and it did have an impact on the games.

They need someone new, someone a little smarter strategically.

[WVPacman]

The question is are the reds Front office capable of hiring a manger that can keep the reds in the playoffs and go farther in the playoffs if Dusty does'nt come back.

[corkedbat]

The thing that irritates me most about Dusty is lineup construction. I really do be lieve there is a difference between batting guys with a high OBP at the top of the order over guys that have not just low, but hideously low OBPs at the top of the order and that is magnified greatly over the course of a season. You can talk all you want about, "Well the Reds won 97 games and scored enough runs over the course of the season, but there were times when this team really struggled to score runs. I don't believe you can score too many runs and I don't believe in rewarding poor plate skills with extra AB's

I hope Jocketty shows his concern with this team's OBP issues with his moves this ofseason. I'd love to see what this team could do with a .350+ guy and Brandon hitting in front of Joey. I do not in any way, shape or form want to see Stubbs, Cozart or Valdez anywhere near the top of the order.

[corkedbat]

Originally Posted by WVPacman

The question is are the reds Front office capable of hiring a manger that can keep the reds in the playoffs and go farther in the playoffs if Dusty does'nt come back.

I'm thinking Dusty's back, but the more I think about it, the more I think Walt would turn to TLR. Just like with players, I believe he's most comfortable with those he's dealt with in the past.

[WVPacman]

Originally Posted by corkedbat

I'm thinking Dusty's back, but the more I think about it, the more I think Walt would turn to TLR. Just like with players, I believe he's most comfortable with those he's dealt with in the past.

I could be wrong but I don't see TLR coming back as a reds manager BUT you have to give the man major props b/c he is a winner no ifs and ands about it.Just imagine what Dusty would think lol.

[redsfaninbsg]

I think Dusty is crazy a lot but, I would be somewhat upset if he wasn't back. One team won more games than the Reds this season. Every game in the Divisional Series is going five games, folks luck is a big part of the playoffs. Dusty needs to be back and people need to leave him alone. (Wow, I can't believe I typed that).

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by MWM

Exactly what I was going to say. He was good for this team throughout the season. He got the most out of them day in day out for 162 games. But this team doesn't need that anymore. They've got the horses to win high 90s games for the next few years and they're more experienced now and have the right guys in the cubhouse to keep them playing well for the season.

This team has now evolved and has "graduated" to where they need a cerebral guy who can come in and be smart. Dusty has his good qualities, but I've yet to see anyone claim he's anything other than a pretty poor tactical manager. He's not THE reason the Reds lost this series, but he really made some big blunders that very few managers would have made. Bochy managed circles around him and it did have an impact on the games.

They need someone new, someone a little smarter strategically.

If we still had rep points, you would be the beneficiary of several for this post. Spot on.

[757690]

Originally Posted by MWM

Exactly what I was going to say. He was good for this team throughout the season. He got the most out of them day in day out for 162 games. But this team doesn't need that anymore. They've got the horses to win high 90s games for the next few years and they're more experienced now and have the right guys in the cubhouse to keep them playing well for the season.

This team has now evolved and has "graduated" to where they need a cerebral guy who can come in and be smart. Dusty has his good qualities, but I've yet to see anyone claim he's anything other than a pretty poor tactical manager. He's not THE reason the Reds lost this series, but he really made some big blunders that very few managers would have made. Bochy managed circles around him and it did have an impact on the games.

They need someone new, someone a little smarter strategically.

For everybody"blunder" you can find, I can one for every manager in the playoffs this season, plus I can find a dozen moves that a Susty made that helped the team.

Also, this was the exact same logic that was used to fire Sparky. Someone was new needed to take them to the next level.

Winning managers do get fired from time to time, but I can't remember one that the team didn't regret.

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by 757690

For everybody"blunder" you can find, I can one for every manager in the playoffs this season, plus I can find a dozen moves that a Susty made that helped the team.

Also, this was the exact same logic that was used to fire Sparky. Someone was new needed to take them to the next level.

Winning managers do get fired from time to time, but I can't remember one that the team didn't regret.

I don't think the Giants regret letting Dusty walk.

[camisadelgolf]

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/bus/3332020618.html

[757690]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

I don't think the Giants regret letting Dusty walk.

They did well the first two years, then four straight losing seasons. It took stealing Bochy away from the Padres to right the ship.

[GAC]

I have no problem at all with Baker coming back. I'm not saying I didn't raise my eyebrows at some of his decisions during the last three games, but I don't think anyone can definitively show that if he had/hadn't done this or that it would have led us to win.

Oh sure, fans are going to throw out various situations, but it's still all pretty subjective.

Game 3 was the turning point IMO. Bailey pitched one heck of a game for 7+ innings before the bullpen took over, and both teams were scoreless as we went into the 10th. SF pushed across the lone winning run because of two very critical errors in the field by Hanigan and Rolen. It wasn't Baker's fault they lost that game.

People questioned the decision to start Leake in game 4 over Latos or even LeCure. Did they take into consideration that Latos would have not only been pitching on 3 days rest, but was also not at 100% because of allergies (congestion)? I heard some say they'd still take a less-then-100% Latos over Leake. Really? And if he was instrumental in them losing that game via his pitching, people would have been screaming, after the fact too, that it was stupid of Baker to do that knowing he wasn't 100%. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

LeCure? The guy has been on this team for 3 years. He had his chance to earn a spot as a starter in this rotation prior, and simply failed. He's proven his worth as a solid middle/long relief guy and that is it. And yet you're going to take the chance and hand him the ball in a critical game #4? We went into the 5th inning of that game tied 2-2. Leake starts off the 5th giving up back-to-back doubles, and Baker immediately goes out and talks to Leake... which is what a manager does. The next batter lays down a sac bunt to advance runners. and Baker pulls Leake for LeCure. LeCure gives up a long fly to CF that sacrifices the 2nd run across. What put the nail in the coffin was Arredondo in the 7th. You want to question that decision then fine, but the bottomline is he didn't get the job done.

And game #5, if there has to be a culprit(s), then put it on Latos who let his emotions once again get the best of him, lost his focus, and grooved one. He put us in a very deep hole.

But the bottom line is simply this, as I go back and look at these last three games, and especially yesterday's game..... this team fell back into the same rut that they have struggled with all year - hitting (clutch) with RISP. They were in the bottom tier all year during the regular season in this, and it came back to bite them in the butt. They had Zito on the ropes in the first inning, yet scored only 1 run thank to Phillips getting thrown out trying to advance to 3B. How many innings can we sight examples like this in those last three games? They had multiple opportunities (chances), especially in the last 4 innings of yesterday's game, and the players simply could not come through. They could not capitalize when they needed to.

If some want to place the blame on Baker then go ahead. But the vast majority of the finger pointing needs to go on these players and their lack of execution in critical situations.

That's why they lost. That's where the blame needs to go IMO.

[sivman17]

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet but was wondering if anyone else had seen this.

G Scott Kyser Jr posted these on Twitter last night.

It's early, but according to my sources within the #Reds organization, Dusty Baker will not be back as #Reds manager. His deal has expired

Apparently Walt Jocketty had decided he was going to bring in how own guy if Baker failed to get the #Reds past the NLDS. And here we are

Not sure what to make of this guy. I had never heard of him but he covers sports for WCPO. I'm not sure who his 'sources' are.

[bucksfan2]

I don't bring him back.

I like Dusty, thought he did a great job with the Reds. He never changed his managing style during the season, wen Votto went down he didn't panic. When Madson down in ST he didn't panic. When Marshall was ineffective early he switched the Chapman and created one of the best pens in the league. Over the course of a 162 game season I think Dusty gives you a great shot at winning a lot of games.

That said Dusty was poor in the playoffs. He managed games like it was game 145 instead of game 3. Boche managed circles around Dusty. He wasn't afraid to yank a starter early. He wasn't afraid to use all the players on his bench early. Dusty never managed with a sense of urgency and it cost the Reds.

The Reds are built to win the WS. They spent money and traded prospects to advance in the playoffs. You can't have a manager who is out-managed when you are trying to win the WS. That is the reason I don't bring Dusty back. Thank him for his time but get someone who when push comes to shove isn't afraid to pull out all the stops.