Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

[OesterPoster]

I thought it was 2-10 prior to yesterday's game.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by Reds/Flyers Fan

I think Brook Jacoby is the bigger issue. Unfortunately, if Dusty returns so does Jacoby likely. Dusty is just too fiercely loyal.

Jacoby may not be the right hitting coach, I couldn't tell you.

But let's not avoid the real issue.

The Reds are a below average hitting team in the OBP and BA departments and are particularly weak in these areas against right handed pitching. It was like that all year, and the second half of 2011.

If you like to watch home runs and long doubles, the Reds are your team.

Consistent hitting against all types of pitching? Maybe you want to look somewhere else.

To me, it's the personnel. Walt's job this off-season is to fix it. Whoever the manager is.

[Bumstead]

Originally Posted by Larkin Fan

Yes, I absolutely agree that he left Homer Bailey in the game too long in Game 3. The players were obviously intimidated by that blowout.

The Reds lost this series because of something that plagued us much of the year. The inability to hit in key situations. If you want to blame Dusty, that's fine. But there's a number of players on the roster that are equally, if not more, culpable.

another side step! Nice! We disagree, that's fine with me. This is too good a team to have a guy running it that can't make reasonable strategic decisions.

Carry-on.

Bum

[Marc D]

I don't post much anymore but my .02 is that teams take on the personality of the leader and Baker led teams have a track record of playoff choking.

The nucleus is there for this team, the window is open for the next few years. They need a manager with a proven playoff track record (of success).

[dfs]

Originally Posted by GAC

We went into the 5th inning of that game tied 2-2. Leake starts off the 5th giving up back-to-back doubles, and Baker immediately goes out and talks to Leake... which is what a manager does. The next batter lays down a sac bunt to advance runners. and Baker pulls Leake for LeCure. LeCure gives up a long fly to CF that sacrifices the 2nd run across.

In the game I was watching and in the play by play on the website, the reds went into the 5th inning down 3-2.
While Dusty is talking to the national tv guys about how well Leake is throwing, Leake gives up two doubles on three pitches scoring another run and leaving a man at second.

You've got an 11 man pitching staff but nobody is even warming in the 5th inning where your starter isn't dominant in a must win game?

And then to do the same thing the next day with Latos?

I'm all for dancing with the guys that brought you there and everything and lord know I have the Tony LaRussa managed every game like it was the 7th game of a world series, but you've got that weapon of a bullpen don't you use it for more than 3 run leads?

Originally Posted by GAC

If some want to place the blame on Baker then go ahead. But the vast majority of the finger pointing needs to go on these players and their lack of execution in critical situations.

I've been a Baker supporter all this time, but I feel very, very let down by those last two games.

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by Larkin Fan

Yes, I absolutely agree that he left Homer Bailey in the game too long in Game 3. The players were obviously intimidated by that blowout.

It's pretty easy to leave in a pitcher who is dominating. But when the pitcher doesn't have it, you 100% need to pull him 'too soon' rather than 'too late'. With Dusty, it is always too late.

[Tony Cloninger]

Originally Posted by Reds/Flyers Fan

I think Brook Jacoby is the bigger issue. Unfortunately, if Dusty returns so does Jacoby likely. Dusty is just too fiercely loyal.

Then make it easier and tell him that Jacoby has to go....then Baker can just say he walked away beacuse 2 years is not long enough and he did not want to lose Jacoby.

[Tony Cloninger]

Originally Posted by Larkin Fan

Yes, I absolutely agree that he left Homer Bailey in the game too long in Game 3. The players were obviously intimidated by that blowout.

The Reds lost this series because of something that plagued us much of the year. The inability to hit in key situations. If you want to blame Dusty, that's fine. But there's a number of players on the roster that are equally, if not more, culpable.

The irony here is that Bailey could have gone another inning, maybe 2. It is really weird how he does that isn't it?

[Gallen5862]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Reds To Offer Baker Contract
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [October 12 at 11:21am CST]
The Reds want manager Dusty Baker back for the 2013 season. General manager Walt Jocketty planned to meet with Baker and offer him a short-term contract this morning, Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports (on Twitter).

The Reds were eliminated from the playoffs yesterday, ending a season that saw the team win 97 games and the NL Central title. Baker, who has managed the Reds since 2008, recently missed some time after suffering a mini-stroke. However, he recently said he's "not through managing," an indication that he expects to return for at least one more season.

The Reds have won the NL Central twice since Baker was hired, and their overall winning percentage for the five year period is .517. The 63-year-old earned $3.5MM per season on his first contract with Cincinnati.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

It's pretty easy to leave in a pitcher who is dominating. But when the pitcher doesn't have it, you 100% need to pull him 'too soon' rather than 'too late'. With Dusty, it is always too late.

If the pen gets shelled, it then becomes "too soon". When you say that someone should have done something differently, you can never be proven wrong.

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

If the pen gets shelled, it then becomes "too soon". When you say that someone should have done something differently, you can never be proven wrong.

Even if their pen got shelled in Game 4, Bochy wouldn't have been wrong to have pulled Zito when he did.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

Even if their pen got shelled in Game 4, Bochy wouldn't have been wrong to have pulled Zito when he did.

Bochy allowed Zito to allow 8 base runners in 2 2/3 innings. I'm not sure that Dusty was presented with as easy a test as that.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by Brutus

The guy has been to the playoffs twice in three years and Reds fans want him canned?

Surely you guys remember it was 15 years prior to the previous playoff appearance...

Lol, I agree.
I assumed the poll would lean towards "No", but I had no idea it would be this lopsided.

It's not Dusty's fault that the knee injury sapped Votto's power and that Cueto couldn't pitch in the playoffs.. It's not his fault that the pitching evaporated in the last 3 games (Latos losing his cool, etc)

Honestly, Dusty might be the best manager this team has ever had.
He gets results. Sure, he had talent this year, but on paper, this team could've easily finished 3rd in the division (as many on this board forecasted a non-contending season).

[GAC]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

That said Dusty was poor in the playoffs. He managed games like it was game 145 instead of game 3. Boche managed circles around Dusty. He wasn't afraid to yank a starter early. He wasn't afraid to use all the players on his bench early. Dusty never managed with a sense of urgency and it cost the Reds.

And this right here, as far as any criticism of Baker goes, is the key, and I do lean towards agreeing with your assessment.... not managing with a sense of urgency.

But again - the vast majority of the blame for the loses goes on those players who struggled to execute, take advantage of GOLDEN OPPORTUNITIES with RISP when they presented themselves. And the Giants gave them plenty of them too.

I just got done talking to a buddy... had to talk him down off a bridge because he was so distraught over the Reds..... but when they announced that Cueto was done, and decided to call up Leake, I immediately thought.. "Why not give the start to Chapman? You got Broxton and Marshall to close. It's one game, but a very important one. You close it out, and you have several days of rest.

But I think this gets back to Baker's mindset, which is pretty traditional-thinking, and you have defined roles for players, and you don't sway from that.

I still say that if we had Cueto we'd have won this easily.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

Lol, I agree.
I assumed the poll would lean towards "No", but I had no idea it would be this lopsided.

It's not Dusty's fault that the knee injury sapped Votto's power and that Cueto couldn't pitch in the playoffs.. It's not his fault that the pitching evaporated in the last 3 games (Latos losing his cool, etc)

Honestly, Dusty might be the best manager this team has ever had.
He gets results. Sure, he had talent this year, but on paper, this team could've easily finished 3rd in the division (as many on this board forecasted a non-contending season).

Exactly. And for all those that want Baker canned? Do you have a viable replacement/candidate in mind? Or are you just so mad with frustration you want someone's head to roll.