Reds to offer Baker a contract

[WVPacman]

Originally Posted by 757690

I think Dusty might only want one year deals from now on. With his health issues, he would like the flexibility to walk away from managing if they become an issue again. I just don't see Dusty quitting with years left on his contract.

This is why I don't think he should come back.He is up there in age and as you said he is starting to have health problems.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by nemesis

I'm probably wrong. But the next manager of the Reds needs to be more position player rookie friendly.

What's Dusty done wrong on this front? Cozart started the whole year as a rookie at a key position. Rolen put up an .849 OPS post all star break and still plays circles around Frazier defensively, so it's not hard to understand that decision. He still got the Toddfather 400+ at bats. I'd rather be more "best player friendly" and hope that our rookies fit that title.

[cinreds21]

Originally Posted by nemesis

Well one thing is for certain. Walt already has his replacement in line and the guy probably has already agreed to manage the team if/when Dusty declines. I'm sure they'll do a dog and pony search for show. But there is zero chance that this move was made by Walt without a fallback option in place. Not his style.

Speculation: Riggleman

If Dusty leaves, I will be almost shocked if David Bell isn't his replacement. I dont' know anything first hand, but just the tone I've heard over the years and how things have been handled make me believe that is the course the Reds are on.

Yes, Riggleman has managed some prospects for the Reds, but David Bell has as well. Frazier, Heisey, Cozart, Ondrusek, Villarreal, Mesoraco, Did, Rodriguez, Soto, Phipps, Negron and has interacted with others during rehab stints and of course Spring Training.

[fearofpopvol1]

Would Price leave if Dusty left? That's one thing that gives me major pause. I am a huge fan of Price and want him here no matter what.

[Redlegs]

Originally Posted by redsfan30

I know I am firmly in the minority but I really hope he returns.

I'm with ya. I'd be fine if Dusty returns for 2013. I think the players respond to him. The grass ain't always greener. Just ask the Red Sox about their Bobby Valentine experiment.

[KoryMac5]

Originally Posted by vic715

I agree,a one year contract is a slap in the face and no way he takes it.

How do we know that though, with his health issues and his son getting older maybe he only wants one more yr.

[AtomicDumpling]

Originally Posted by Superdude

What's Dusty done wrong on this front? Cozart started the whole year as a rookie at a key position. Rolen put up an .849 OPS post all star break and still plays circles around Frazier defensively, so it's not hard to understand that decision. He still got the Toddfather 400+ at bats. I'd rather be more "best player friendly" and hope that our rookies fit that title.

Cozart is 27 years old. Yes he is technically a rookie, but he had to wait an awfully long time to break into the major leagues even though he was clearly better than the likes of Paul Janish and washed up veterans Orlando Cabrera and Edgar Renteria. Todd Frazier is 26. These guys aren't raw youngsters.

I don't necessarily agree with the notion that Dusty favors vets and doesn't like young players, but there is some degree of evidence to that effect. Some really bad veteran under-performers (like Cairo and Valdez for example) have gotten a lot of playing time in recent seasons that could have been more wisely utilized by giving it to some younger options. Dusty will play the elite prospects like Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey, but the less heralded prospects basically have to wait until everyone else completely fails before getting a shot.

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

Cozart is 27 years old. Yes he is technically a rookie, but he had to wait an awfully long time to break into the major leagues even though he was clearly better than the likes of Paul Janish and washed up veterans Orlando Cabrera and Edgar Renteria. Todd Frazier is 26. These guys aren't raw youngsters.

You do realize Cozart hit .246/.288/.399 this year, right? How much better than Renteria's .251/.306/.348 in 2011 or Orland Cabrera's .263/.303/.354 in 2010 is that?

In 2010, Cozart hit .255/.310/.416 in his first go at AAA while Edgar Renteria was hitting .276/.332/.374 for the Giants. During 2011, Cozart's performance was driven largely by a .348 BABIP. In 2012, his peripherals were very similar, but his BABIP regressed closer to expected and his overall performance dropped accordingly.

I wanted Cozart at the start of 2011 too. But let's not act like Dusty was keeping Mike Trout in the minors for Vernon Wells.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

Cozart is 27 years old. Yes he is technically a rookie, but he had to wait an awfully long time to break into the major leagues even though he was clearly better than the likes of Paul Janish and washed up veterans Orlando Cabrera and Edgar Renteria. Todd Frazier is 26. These guys aren't raw youngsters.

I don't necessarily agree with the notion that Dusty favors vets and doesn't like young players, but there is some degree of evidence to that effect. Some really bad veteran under-performers (like Cairo and Valdez for example) have gotten a lot of playing time in recent seasons that could have been more wisely utilized by giving it to some younger options. Dusty will play the elite prospects like Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey, but the less heralded prospects basically have to wait until everyone else completely fails before getting a shot.

The first paragraph just makes no sense to me. How does signing free agents and player development fall into Dusty's lap at all? I hated the two headed monster of Janish and Renteria as much as the next guy, but it's kind of hard for Baker to play a guy who's not on the roster. And Cairo and Valdez is really grasping straws. Who are you calling up that fits those needs?

[vic715]

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

How do we know that though, with his health issues and his son getting older maybe he only wants one more yr.

All we do know is that Dusty has said that he wants to manage somewhere.Now even if he only wants to manage only one year wouldn't the security of another year is there if he changes his mind.

[AtomicDumpling]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

You do realize Cozart hit .246/.288/.399 this year, right? How much better than Renteria's .251/.306/.348 in 2011 or Orland Cabrera's .263/.303/.354 in 2010 is that?

In 2010, Cozart hit .255/.310/.416 in his first go at AAA while Edgar Renteria was hitting .276/.332/.374 for the Giants. During 2011, Cozart's performance was driven largely by a .348 BABIP. In 2012, his peripherals were very similar, but his BABIP regressed closer to expected and his overall performance dropped accordingly.

I wanted Cozart at the start of 2011 too. But let's not act like Dusty was keeping Mike Trout in the minors for Vernon Wells.

Yeah that is what I was saying. I never said Zack Cozart was a superstar. Did you read the post? Maybe you should try to understand the point I was making before making a hyper-agressive attack post in reply?

I was replying to someone else who was saying that since Cozart was playing as a rookie it means Dusty doesn't favor vets. Citing a 27 year old rookie doesn't boost that argument. Cozart was not a good example to show that Dusty likes young players -- because Cozart isn't young. I even said I didn't agree with the notion that Dusty won't play rookies and even listed some rookies that he did in fact play when they were truly young and were better examples than Cozart.

And yes, Zack Cozart is a much better option at the plate because of his power. His hitting is likely to improve now that he has a season of major league experience under his belt. In the field Cozart is light years better than those two over the hill retreads. Cozart is a big upgrade now and would have been last year and the year before too. He was certainly much superior to the utility players like Wilson Valdez, Paul Janish and others the last two years that have gotten so much playing time.

[AtomicDumpling]

Originally Posted by Superdude

The first paragraph just makes no sense to me. How does signing free agents and player development fall into Dusty's lap at all? I hated the two headed monster of Janish and Renteria as much as the next guy, but it's kind of hard for Baker to play a guy who's not on the roster. And Cairo and Valdez is really grasping straws. Who are you calling up that fits those needs?

You don't think Dusty Baker has any input over which free agents are signed to play for his team? Of course Dusty has a lot to do with deciding which players to bring in. Jocketty isn't out there doing whatever he pleases without working together with Dusty to get players he wants. Dusty has a LOT more to do with roster construction that you think he does. There is nobody on this team that Dusty Baker didn't want. I am sure there are players that Dusty wanted but Jocketty couldn't acquire as well, but the notion that Dusty is helplessly forced to use players he didn't want on the team is not accurate.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

You don't think Dusty Baker has any input over which free agents are signed to play for his team? Of course Dusty has a lot to do with deciding which players to bring in. Jocketty isn't out there doing whatever he pleases without working together with Dusty to get players he wants. Dusty has a LOT more to do with roster construction that you think he does. There is nobody on this team that Dusty Baker didn't want. I am sure there are players that Dusty wanted but Jocketty couldn't acquire as well, but the notion that Dusty is helplessly forced to use players he didn't want on the team is not accurate.

Alright. You've clearly been managing major league baseball teams more than I have. This entire response is the equivalent of saying, "You're wrong because I just know."

[AtomicDumpling]

Originally Posted by Superdude

Alright. You've clearly been managing major league baseball teams more than I have. This entire response is the equivalent of saying, "You're wrong because I just know."

Why? Because I asked you a question you don't want to answer?

So do you believe the manager has no input regarding which players on are his team? I believe they do.

It sounds like some people want to give Dusty credit for the players who performed well, but the blame for the bad players goes to Walt Jocketty.

[Gallen5862]

How about trying to get Bobby Cox to manage? It's unlikely he would want to come out of retirement. It could be worth a shot that he misses managing.