Just saw Mike Matheny on MLB & I know what the Cardinals have!!!

[Sodbuster]

HometownHero is pretty darn funny...I'll give him that. Not really sure what his point is about the Cardinals being lucky but I suspect it makes him feel better if it allows him to think of the Reds as unlucky. All I know is that if making it to the NLCS 7 out of the last 12 years and winning 2 WS titles during that span makes them lucky then I can live with that. It sure as hell beats the alternative.

This is coming from a Cards fan who actually likes the Reds and always has. I was really rooting for a matchup with them in the NLCS.

I'll leave now before I get accused of trolling...HometownHero-I hope u get over the loss quickly and can move on. You seem like you know your baseball but the postseason is way more than stats. Once you get there, you know as well as I do that you can pretty much throw out the regular season records and it comes down to heart and experience more often than not.

Peace out Reds fans...your time is coming.

[birdsonthebat]

Reds...what a goofy name

what does it mean?

[Tuff Nut]

Originally Posted by birdsonthebat

I am really curious what a Red is.

That is a very weak attempt at criticizing the Cardinals.

Well given that there is not a 'smack' forum on this site,(which might not be a bad idea....eh Boss) I kept it family freindly.

[cards11WChamps]

I've seen alot of Cardinals bashing on this forum and am relieved to see a post where someone finally gets it...that team is filled with a bunch of winners, that don't give up and are obsessed with picking each of their teammates up. I find it ironic that such criticism of the cards exists when the reds turnaround has the Cardinals footprints all over it. Ex Cardinals General Manger that has built one of the best teams in baseball. An Ex-Cardinal, Scott Rolen, that has provided leadership and work ethic to rest of team, despite his physical woes that led to a sub-par NLDS performance. The one player that came to play from games 1 to 5 in the NLDS, Ryan Ludwick, also a former Cardinal. Absolutely nothing lucky about what happened in Game 5 of this year's NLDS and in Game 6 of last years World Series....they grined out every pitch of both of those comebacks...Two of your best players on Friday working walks rather than swinging out of their shoes to tie the game with one swing to set up a light hitting utility player and unproven rookie for the win...that is what baseball is all about and why the Cards are still playing. The Reds had a great season and the future looks bright, but I would argue just don't possess the ingredients that this group of players have that don't show up in the line score and statistics at the end of the year. C'mon Reds fans, give credit where credit is due.

[JayStubbs]

Originally Posted by Mastodon

Our dugout was doing the same honestly.

Exactly. It's absurd to accuse the Reds of not being emotionally involved in a deciding playoff game, one in which they were constantly one swing away from winning it. This club has been fighting adversity from game one and has overcome more the its share, mostly because of it's never say die, winning attitude.

To argue that the Cards are more "winners" than any other team is insulting, absurd and just plain ignorant. If they were such "winners" then why did they lose their division by 9 games? They sneak into the playoffs only because of a last minute rule change, get past the wild card game only because of the worst ump call in the history of MLB playoffs, and snuck past the Nat's only because the Nat's shut down their #1 starter.

The only difference between the Cards dugout and the Reds dugout in their respective game fives, is that the Reds dugout has less syringes, and less sandpaper/pinetar.

I am much prouder to be a Reds fan than a Cardinal fan, because while we might have lost our series, the Reds aren't constantly accused of cheating.

[Rijo's Ghost]

Originally Posted by HometownHero

They Angles had just 3 wins vs the 3 worst MLB teams while the Cardinals had 26!

LOL

The Angles[sic] only played 3 games against the 3 worst MLB teams, and went 3-0.

The Reds had 27 wins against the worst 3 MLB teams.

I fail to see the point you're trying to make.

[JayStubbs]

Originally Posted by birdsonthebat

What exactly is a Red?

A Red is baseball player who plays on a team that doesn't use steroids, doesn't throw scuff balls, doesn't give the umps and oppsosing teams known false weather reports, doesn't cheat in anyway, doesn't rely on rule changes to make the playoffs, doesn't rely on blown ump calls to win games, and doesn't whine about how game balls are prepaid, or fireworks, or the mound, or anything else when they lose.

A Red is a classy baseball player who plays with integrity, pride and dignity. Of course, as a Cardinal fan, you wouldn't know nor understand anything about that.

[HometownHero]

Originally Posted by Rijo's Ghost

I fail to see the point you're trying to make.

The Cardinals got into the playoffs as the team with the 11th best record by winning 41% of their games against teams that lost 90 or more games. A team like the Angels had a better record than the Cardinals and didn't make the playoffs since they didn't get to play as many bad teams.

This year was literally the only year the Cards make the playoffs in MLB history doing what they did. Any other year in baseball history there isn't a second WC and they got half of their games over .500 by having the MLB worst team in their division, in 2013 that team will be gone and so will the 12.5% of their wins this year including

The Astros being so godawful has changed the course of baseball history. Cards got them 15 times this year and the Dodgers got them 6 and they won the 2nd WC by 2 games, last year they got them 15 more times and the Braves got them 6 times and lost by 1 game.

Then after that you have the Royals factor, The Cards get them 6 times every year and they are averaging over 90 losses a year since Interleague play started. in 12, 11 and 06 the Cards won 4 games a year off them and made the playoffs by 2 games, 1 game and 1.5 games.

Its not the Cardinals fault they have such a gift schedule but it doesn't mean they aren't the luckiest team out there, because its clear they are if people stop at look at the numbers here. And that's before we even get onto the field for BABIP and then only to flow of the game breaks.

[dubc47834]

Originally Posted by JayStubbs

Exactly. It's absurd to accuse the Reds of not being emotionally involved in a deciding playoff game, one in which they were constantly one swing away from winning it. This club has been fighting adversity from game one and has overcome more the its share, mostly because of it's never say die, winning attitude.

To argue that the Cards are more "winners" than any other team is insulting, absurd and just plain ignorant. If they were such "winners" then why did they lose their division by 9 games? They sneak into the playoffs only because of a last minute rule change, get past the wild card game only because of the worst ump call in the history of MLB playoffs, and snuck past the Nat's only because the Nat's shut down their #1 starter.

The only difference between the Cards dugout and the Reds dugout in their respective game fives, is that the Reds dugout has less syringes, and less sandpaper/pinetar.

I am much prouder to be a Reds fan than a Cardinal fan, because while we might have lost our series, the Reds aren't constantly accused of cheating.

Dude...I am a loyal Reds fan and avid Cards hater, but to say that that the only reason they beat the Braves was that bad call and that they made it past the Nats because Strasburg was shut down is obsurd to me. Even with a good call against the Braves they still probly win that game. Then the only reason they beat the Nats wasnt because Strasburg wasnt there. The Nats imploded those last few innings. I hate to say it but you gotta give credit where credit is due!!!

[JayStubbs]

Originally Posted by dubc47834

Dude...I am a loyal Reds fan and avid Cards hater, but to say that that the only reason they beat the Braves was that bad call and that they made it past the Nats because Strasburg was shut down is obsurd to me. Even with a good call against the Braves they still probly win that game. Then the only reason they beat the Nats wasnt because Strasburg wasnt there. The Nats imploded those last few innings. I hate to say it but you gotta give credit where credit is due!!!

Never, I will never give credit to cheaters and whiners.

However, I will agree that I should have said, "mainly" instead of "only" with regards to the Braves game, the Braves played terribly too. I do stand by the fact that they don't make the playoffs without the rule change or beat the Nat's if Strasberg was on the postseason roster.

[Rijo's Ghost]

Originally Posted by HometownHero

The Cardinals got into the playoffs as the team with the 11th best record by winning 41% of their games against teams that lost 90 or more games. A team like the Angels had a better record than the Cardinals and didn't make the playoffs since they didn't get to play as many bad teams.

This year was literally the only year the Cards make the playoffs in MLB history doing what they did. Any other year in baseball history there isn't a second WC and they got half of their games over .500 by having the MLB worst team in their division, in 2013 that team will be gone and so will the 12.5% of their wins this year including

This isn't "any other year" and the 2nd WC is now part of the game.

The Astros being so godawful has changed the course of baseball history. Cards got them 15 times this year and the Dodgers got them 6 and they won the 2nd WC by 2 games, last year they got them 15 more times and the Braves got them 6 times and lost by 1 game.

And this year the Reds got them 15 times. Does that discredit the 97 win season in your mind? For some reason I doubt it.

Then after that you have the Royals factor, The Cards get them 6 times every year and they are averaging over 90 losses a year since Interleague play started. in 12, 11 and 06 the Cards won 4 games a year off them and made the playoffs by 2 games, 1 game and 1.5 games.

There's not a whole lot of logic in that math, as it presumes that the wins would all magically turn into losses.

Its not the Cardinals fault they have such a gift schedule but it doesn't mean they aren't the luckiest team out there, because its clear they are if people stop at look at the numbers here. And that's before we even get onto the field for BABIP and then only to flow of the game breaks.

Absolutely they're lucky. Just like the Reds were lucky to have as many games against HOU, CHC and COL as they did. It does not, however, diminish what either team has done.

As for BABIP, there's a couple pretty simple reasons for it being as high as it is, which I'm sure you already know if you have any sort of grasp on statistics.

[HometownHero]

It blows my mind people could even dare to say then not having Strasburg doesn't effect the series.

Nats record 98-64, Nats record when Stephen Strasburg started 19-9, Nats record when Edwin Jackson started 12-19 and then 0-1 in playoffs. Jackson also came back and pitch in game 5 allowing a run.

If the Nats had Strasburg he would have went in game 2, He has a line against of .214/.290/.301/.591 on the road this year so he could have been there to dropped the hammer on the Cards and go up 2-0. By pitching in this game he could have piggybacked with Gio in game 5 meaning when Gio was bad in the 4th Strasburg could been in for the 5-7 then Clippard and Storen in the 8th and 9th if it even went that far. Also by having Strasburg on the road it means Jordan Zimmermann at home where he had lost since May 17th.

Lets also not forget that the 2nd WC made these series 2-3 rather than 2-2-1 so Drew Storen was in his 3rd game in 3 days when that has never even been a factor in the NLDS before.

[Rijo's Ghost]

Originally Posted by JayStubbs

Never, I will never give credit to cheaters and whiners.

However, I will agree that I should have said, "mainly" instead of "only" with regards to the Braves game, the Braves played terribly too. I do stand by the fact that they don't make the playoffs without the rule change or beat the Nat's if Strasberg was on the postseason roster.

Where is the cheating stuff coming from?

[JayStubbs]

Originally Posted by Rijo's Ghost

Where is the cheating stuff coming from?

First , steroids and other PED's. LaRussa is the king of steroids, first with the A's and then with the Cards. He even made sure to bring back Mr. steroids himself as their hitting coach. Mediocre players and players on the decline come over to the Cards and have career years, over and over again. It must be something in the water

Second, Duncan has been accused his entire career of teaching pitchers how to throw scuff balls. Even a former pitcher, Perez in Cleveland talked about it openly to the press. Again, mediocre and declining pitchers come over to the Cards and re-invent their careers.

It's been happening for too long and too often for it to be just coincidence.

[Rijo's Ghost]

Originally Posted by JayStubbs

First , steroids and other PED's. LaRussa is the king of steroids, first with the A's and then with the Cards. He even made sure to bring back Mr. steroids himself as their hitting coach. Mediocre players and players on the decline come over to the Cards and have career years, over and over again. It must be something in the water

And yet no player has ever tested positive for PED's while on the Cardinals roster. Career years happen all the time, because every player has one.

Second, Duncan has been accused his entire career of teaching pitchers how to throw scuff balls. Even a former pitcher, Perez in Cleveland talked about it openly to the press. Again, mediocre and declining pitchers come over to the Cards and re-invent their careers.

It's been happening for too long and too often for it to be just coincidence.

Never seen the Cards pitchers accused of scuffing balls, which are extremely easy to detect, since all the ump has to do is look at the ball.

For every player that reinvents their career, there's another that completely fails. Duncan is regarded around the league as one of the best in the game and Busch is a pitchers park.