Offseason Priorities

[mth123]

Back to reality. We're talking about replacing Stubbs. If we have to trade his 14 HR power to get some one who gets on base, has better contact and hits for a better average, I think its the right trade to make. I don't care if he only hits 2 or 3 HR. No one is suggesting replacing Bruce or Votto with a slaphitter. We'll still have Phillips, Frazier and Cozart to provide middling power from the right side. Hopefully Ludwick is back and Mesoraco emerges a bit. Throw in Heisey and the team has plenty of guys with 15 to 25 HR power from the rigt side who all are likely to have a mediocre at best OBP with BA's in the .270 or less range.

I'm generally more of a power fan than a a fan of judy hitters, its just this team needs some diviersity. I hope the guy also hits lefty and is stronger vs. RHP than he is LHP.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by Brutus

Does anyone have scouting reports on Mickey Slapper and Jack Slugger? I'm not familiar with them.

Jack Slugger's stats: .200/.330/.450 

SEASON
AVERAGE BETWEEN .200 AND .225
OBA BETWEEN .330 AND .340
SLG BETWEEN .440 AND .460
RUNS CREATED/GAME vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
PLATE APPEARANCES displayed only--not a sorting criteria

AT BATS                       YEAR     AB       AVG      OBA      SLG     RC/G      PA     
1    Gorman Thomas            1985      484     .215     .330     .450     0.40      574   




Mickey Slapper's stats: .300/.330/.450


SEASON
AVERAGE BETWEEN .290 AND .310
OBA BETWEEN .330 AND .340
SLG BETWEEN .440 AND .460
RUNS CREATED/GAME vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
PLATE APPEARANCES displayed only--not a sorting criteria

AT BATS                       YEAR     AB       AVG      OBA      SLG     RC/G      PA     
1    Michael Young            2003      666     .306     .339     .446     0.52      713   
2    Carlos Beltran           1999      663     .293     .337     .454     -.04      723   
3    Jack Wilson              2004      652     .308     .335     .459     0.12      693   
4    Jeff Francoeur           2007      642     .293     .338     .444     -.04      696   
5    Gene Moore               1936      637     .290     .335     .449     0.58      691   
6    Carl Crawford            2004      626     .296     .331     .450     0.61      672   
7    Pinky Whitney            1932      624     .298     .335     .449     0.20      678   
8    Aaron Hill               2007      608     .291     .333     .459     -.03      657   
9    Matt Kemp                2008      606     .290     .340     .459     0.46      657   
10   Gee Walker               1939      598     .291     .330     .443     -.64      645   
11   Charlie Hanford          1914      597     .291     .332     .447     1.02      645   
12   Tony Perez               1978      544     .290     .336     .449     0.94      590   
13   Vic Power                1956      530     .309     .340     .447     0.69      559   
14   Candy LaChance           1897      520     .308     .333     .446     -.04      548   
15   Tom Long                 1915      507     .294     .339     .446     1.40      556   
16   Kenji Johjima            2006      506     .291     .332     .451     -.08      542   
17   Harry Davis              1901      496     .306     .340     .452     1.10      525   
18   Jay Payton               2000      488     .291     .331     .447     -.68      529   
19   George Burns             1919      470     .296     .339     .447     0.94      507   
20   Carl Reynolds            1931      462     .290     .333     .442     -.04      495   
21   Glenn Wright             1926      458     .308     .335     .459     0.45      493   
22   Jeff Conine              1999      444     .291     .335     .453     -.29      485   
23   George Wood              1883      441     .302     .339     .444     2.23      466   
24   Hardy Richardson         1884      439     .301     .334     .444     2.48      461   
T25  Bengie Molina            2005      410     .295     .336     .446     -.02      449   
T25  John Grim                1894      410     .298     .339     .449    -1.56      444   
27   Ed Goodson               1973      384     .302     .331     .453     0.70      403   
28   Vladimir Guerrero        2009      383     .295     .334     .460     -.10      407   
29   Sammy West               1928      378     .302     .338     .442     0.04      405   
30   Howie Kendrick           2009      374     .291     .334     .444     0.16      400   
31   Moose Solters            1934      365     .299     .333     .447     -.19      384   
32   Jim Poole                1926      361     .294     .339     .452     0.20      394   
33   Mark Salas               1985      360     .300     .332     .458     0.88      382   
34   Cesar Cedeno             1970      355     .310     .340     .451     0.57      377   
35   Carlos Paula             1955      351     .299     .332     .447     0.19      374   
36   Charlie Bennett          1882      342     .301     .340     .450     2.95      362   
37   Neifi Perez              1997      313     .291     .333     .444     0.12      344   
38   Bob Seeds                1938      296     .291     .338     .443     0.51      320   
39   Mike Greenwell           1996      295     .295     .336     .441     -.56      318   
40   Ethan Allen              1930      284     .292     .332     .447    -1.21      311

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Mickey Slapper's stats: .300/.330/.450


SEASON
AVERAGE BETWEEN .290 AND .310
OBA BETWEEN .330 AND .340
SLG BETWEEN .440 AND .460
RUNS CREATED/GAME vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
PLATE APPEARANCES displayed only--not a sorting criteria

AT BATS                       YEAR     AB       AVG      OBA      SLG     RC/G      PA     
4    Jeff Francoeur           2007      642     .293     .338     .444     -.04      696

So as it relates to the Reds' LF situation, Mickey Slapper is Jeff Francouer. That would go over really well on Redszone.

[nemesis]

Heard an interesting tidbit.

The Reds will NOT trade Stubbs until a replacement is found. Once they aquire a player then they will look to move him for a "decent" Minor Leaguer or a LH utility player or bullpen arm.

Reds are deeply interested in Eric Young Jr. They tried to make a last minute deadline deal after Span fell apart. Just not enough time to agree on parts. It would probably cost them a bullpen arm and a starting pitching prospect.

Thoughts?

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by nemesis

Heard an interesting tidbit.

The Reds will NOT trade Stubbs until a replacement is found. Once they aquire a player then they will look to move him for a "decent" Minor Leaguer or a LH utility player or bullpen arm.

Reds are deeply interested in Eric Young Jr. They tried to make a last minute deadline deal after Span fell apart. Just not enough time to agree on parts. It would probably cost them a bullpen arm and a starting pitching prospect.

Thoughts?

If the Reds are planning to move Chapman into the rotation, which I hope is the case, then I think it would make absolute sense to trade Leake or Bailey for Young.

Leake, being a sinkerball pitcher, is someone I could see the Rockies liking a lot. They love guys with groundball tendencies, naturally. He had nearly a 2:1 ratio last year of grounders to flyballs.

Needless to say, Young is the kind of player the Reds need.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by Brutus

If the Reds are planning to move Chapman into the rotation, which I hope is the case, then I think it would make absolute sense to trade Leake or Bailey for Young.

Leake, being a sinkerball pitcher, is someone I could see the Rockies liking a lot. They love guys with groundball tendencies, naturally. He had nearly a 2:1 ratio last year of grounders to flyballs.

Needless to say, Young is the kind of player the Reds need.

Young has been a bench player on the Rockies. He had a great year in 2012 in limited PAs. He hasn't been a starter and his defense has generally received low grades. Doesn't throw that well.

On the other hand, his UZR rating for 2012 was good, and I read one report saying his defense improved dramatically.

Fast, can steal bases, switch hitter. Good OBP. Good plate discipline. Very little power. Works hard and hustles.

Very intriguing idea for the Reds. With Fowler in Colorado, Young should be obtainable and hopefully would get on base frequently as a leadoff hitter. Doubt he will be Stubbs' equal in CF defensively.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by Brutus

If the Reds are planning to move Chapman into the rotation, which I hope is the case, then I think it would make absolute sense to trade Leake or Bailey for Young.

Leake, being a sinkerball pitcher, is someone I could see the Rockies liking a lot. They love guys with groundball tendencies, naturally. He had nearly a 2:1 ratio last year of grounders to flyballs.

Needless to say, Young is the kind of player the Reds need.

You'd trade Homer for him? Young might be a decent target, but it's a little concerning that his first good season has a .360+ BABIP attached to it. Especially considering that the dimensions of Coors lends itself to a few extra hits dropping in.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Superdude

You'd trade Homer for him? Young might be a decent target, but it's a little concerning that his first good season has a .360+ BABIP attached to it. Especially considering that the dimensions of Coors lends itself to a few extra hits dropping in.

With his speed and a decent line drive rate, he would likely sustain a pretty high BABIP. Maybe not .360, but not terribly far off. I don't know that I'd trade Bailey solely on what Young did this season in a smaller sample, but I think I'd be willing to pull the trigger based on the belief that Young is capable of keeping that production up going forward.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Young has been a bench player on the Rockies. He had a great year in 2012 in limited PAs. He hasn't been a starter and his defense has generally received low grades. Doesn't throw that well.

On the other hand, his UZR rating for 2012 was good, and I read one report saying his defense improved dramatically.

Fast, can steal bases, switch hitter. Good OBP. Good plate discipline. Very little power. Works hard and hustles.

Very intriguing idea for the Reds. With Fowler in Colorado, Young should be obtainable and hopefully would get on base frequently as a leadoff hitter. Doubt he will be Stubbs' equal in CF defensively.

Scouts like his defense, generally. He doesn't have a strong arm but he's got good range and decent instincts.

He was a bench player for the first half of the year but while part of that was because he was coming off a bad year, the other part is the Rockies didn't need him. Where would he play? They had Scutaro at second and Gonzalez-Fowler and Cuddyer in the outfield. So Young's being a bench player this year wasn't necessarily an indictment on his abilities.

I think Young is a potentially great tablesetter this season for the Reds. If he's able to pick up where he left off with the bat, then perhaps he'd justify being moved to left field when Hamilton is ready.

[AtomicDumpling]

Originally Posted by Superdude

You'd trade Homer for him? Young might be a decent target, but it's a little concerning that his first good season has a .360+ BABIP attached to it. Especially considering that the dimensions of Coors lends itself to a few extra hits dropping in.

I agree. Homer Bailey has a lot more trade value than what it would take to obtain Eric Young Jr. The Reds could probably get Dexter Fowler for Homer Bailey.

Young has a career slash line of .266/.339/.339 for an OPS of .679 playing half his games in Coors Field. He will be 28 next season and only has 601 career ABs total in four years. His career OPS away from Coors Field is .569, which is worse than Wilson Valdez's .594 career OPS. Young is a slap hitter who benefits immensely from the immense dimensions of Coors Field so we could expect a severe dropoff from his already meager production if he were to come to Cincinnati.

I think Eric Young is a less desirable option than Drew Stubbs, and I am not a believer in Drew Stubbs. Eric Young might be an option as a 5th outfielder but I certainly wouldn't give up Homer Bailey for him. I would offer the Rockies Wilson Valdez straight up for Eric Young, take it or leave it. They wouldn't take it of course, but I wouldn't offer them anything better.

He was an interesting option to consider, but I would be very disappointed if the Reds can't find a better option than Eric Young.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

I think Eric Young is a less desirable option than Drew Stubbs, and I am not a believer in Drew Stubbs. Eric Young might be an option as a 5th outfielder but I certainly wouldn't give up Homer Bailey for him. I would offer the Rockies Wilson Valdez straight up for Eric Young, take it or leave it. They wouldn't take it of course, but I wouldn't offer them anything better.

The wildcard though is that Young is sort of an unknown commodity. He may be just as hapless as Stubbs, but give him some playing time and maybe he gives us a decent OBP at the top of the order and cracks ten or so homers. If Jocketty wants to turn the page on Stubbs without blocking Hamilton long term, I could see targeting Young with an offer somewhere between Bailey and Valdez.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Superdude

The wildcard though is that Young is sort of an unknown commodity. He may be just as hapless as Stubbs, but give him some playing time and maybe he gives us a decent OBP at the top of the order and cracks ten or so homers. If Jocketty wants to turn the page on Stubbs without blocking Hamilton long term, I could see targeting Young with an offer somewhere between Bailey and Valdez.

Young would be a decent 25th man candidate who could earn his way to a bigger role, but I'd hope the Reds would get somebody with more of a track record. As far as how to acquire him, I certainly hope they don't pay as though he's already earned it. I'd offer Ondrusek or maybe Bray for him at most. Some one who is arb eligible and probably not worth it. Otherwise, I'd probably only go a lottery ticket minor leaguer (say Andrew Brackman as an example).

As for Bailey and Leake, I think the Reds need to keep them both even if they plan to move Chapman into the rotation. Leake goes to long relief and provides depth. I think Chapman in the rotation is far from a sure thing and even if it works out, its not likely that the Reds are going to make it through another year with all the starters making all their starts. The Nats kept John Lannan around as insurance all season and I'd argue that he's a more accomplished pitcher than Leake is. In fact, if the Reds do decide to move one of their starters to make room for Chapman, I'd hope they could get a guy like Lannan to be the 6th guy.

[gilpdawg]

Young isn't really much of an upgrade of Stubbs. But Stubbs absolutely isn't the answer. He actually provided slightly more or equal value with 196 plate appearances in 2009 with the late season call up (granted it was against expanded rosters) then he did in a full season this year. I know someone is going to pop in here and say "but he was worth 4 WAR 2 years ago" but let's be real....that's so far in the rear view mirror he doesn't even seem like the same guy. As a Dave Roberts PR/reserve OF type he'd be fine, but dude just isn't a starting player. He just isn't. As far as I'm concerned CF needs to be Walt's top priority.

[mdccclxix]

I would think Young for Heisey would be a nice swap of 4th OF types. They each have their own upside to attain. If the Reds had to, I wouldn't miss Arredondo or Ondrusek as well, especially if we got some minor league fodder as well. I like Young, though, intriguing guy to add to the mix. I worry he'd get Taveras'd a little. In the end, I'd love to find a defensive CF that hits RHP with some adroitness. We could keep Stubbs to platoon and come off the bench for a variety of situations. Maybe Bonifacio in MIA would be available for a guy like Heisey. You could drop Valdez with Bonifacio on the team.

[lidspinner]

If Chapman does move to the rotation do we really want him sitting out the playoffs ala Strasburgh this year? no way does Chap pitch all year, his innings will be limited at some point in the season so why not try and keep Leake for the Lannan roles as mentioned above by mth123.....if Chapman is starting for this team then I also want him available come playoff time.....so if that means he misses a start each month then I am fine with that....but no way in hades do I go into the post season with him not on the roster just because we are trying to save his arm....save his arm throughout the season and limit his innings by giving a 6th starter some spot starts in his place.....

we are in our window of World Series seasons, we dont want to throw one of those seasons of Chapmans contract away....Leake is a must have for this team IMO if Chapman is in the rotation.....If Chapman stays where he is then I think you can afford to trade Leake or Homer if your going to get a stud lead off hitter who plays CF.