Trade/Sell High on Homer?

[thatcoolguy_22]

I voted No. However I am on the side of anyone and everyone is tradeable in the right package. If Homer is moving I want a CF or SS with the value of a number 2 SP. I think Homer's value to the Reds is higher than what most teams would be willing to pay.

[M2]

Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1

I thought you weren't high on Bailey at all?

He's settled in a bit. I don't expect anything spectacular from him, but if he can pump out 180+ IP of respectable pitching then I see no reason to move him. We saw this year just how devastating a steady rotation can be. If another team comes in and blows the Reds away with an offer for Bailey, then jump on it, but I think there's ways to improve the lineup that don't involve moving anyone from the rotation.

[M2]

Originally Posted by 757690

Difference between the BRM of the 70's and the Braves of the '90's? One World Series Championship.

And people forget the BRM came really close to being one of history's great flops. The World Series losses in '70 and '72, the playoff loss in '73, dropping the division in '74 - the Reds were developing a reputation for pulling defeat out of the jaws of victory. Had the Red Sox won Game 7 in 1975 it's entirely possible the Reds would have disintegrated into self-doubt rather than ensconce themselves as one of the greatest teams of all time. The name Bernie Carbo might have become a curse in Cincinnati.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by M2

And people forget the BRM came really close to being one of history's great flops. The World Series losses in '70 and '72, the playoff loss in '73, dropping the division in '74 - the Reds were developing a reputation for pulling defeat out of the jaws of victory. Had the Red Sox won Game 7 in 1975 it's entirely possible the Reds would have disintegrated into self-doubt rather than ensconce themselves as one of the greatest teams of all time. The name Bernie Carbo might have become a curse in Cincinnati.

Bernie "@!$#%!!&^!!" Carbo!!!!!!!

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by M2

And people forget the BRM came really close to being one of history's great flops. The World Series losses in '70 and '72, the playoff loss in '73, dropping the division in '74 - the Reds were developing a reputation for pulling defeat out of the jaws of victory. Had the Red Sox won Game 7 in 1975 it's entirely possible the Reds would have disintegrated into self-doubt rather than ensconce themselves as one of the greatest teams of all time. The name Bernie Carbo might have become a curse in Cincinnati.

If that doesn't prove that playoffs are a crap shoot, what does? And there was one less round of playoffs back then.

[mdccclxix]

Homer's ERA was 4.24 on August 26th. Then he faced the Astros 2 times, the Pirates 2 times, the Cubs 1 time, gave up 5 runs to the Dodgers and was only asked to go 4 innings vs the Cardinals in the last game of the year. End result, ERA 3.68. Believe me, 2-3 more starts following this stretch vs better teams, his ERA would have gone back up around 4. Bailey is a #4 pitcher who had the best year of his career. The point is, if the payroll is too high, and if another team wants to pay a lot for Bailey, it could end up improving the outlook in 2013, even through 2017 if a cost controlled contributor is brought back. In the end though, I can see where focusing on trading Bailey is the wrong idea. Others are confident the Reds have money to spend. So be it. If the payroll is 96 million this year, what will it be in 2014 when more raises kick in? Are we really seeing the Reds jumping into top 10 payroll status year after year? I think that's what extending Latos AND Homer would signal. I would love that. With those two pitchers you also have the chance to get them for less than a FA pickup of similar value for the next 3-4 years. It just requires the money. I've always seen the trajectory of the Reds leading to some level of sell offs, but right now that hasn't happened, in fact the total opposite did last year. They traded young cheap talent and kept the premier talent. I think the Reds, and their fans, have always wanted to spend a reasonable amount. I hope that becomes 100-120 million in the next 3-4 years. Who knows?

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

If that doesn't prove that playoffs are a crap shoot, what does? And there was one less round of playoffs back then.

You've convinced me. Let's stand pat and hope we simply get lucky next postseason.

[osuceltic]

Originally Posted by mdccclxix

Homer's ERA was 4.24 on August 26th. Then he faced the Astros 2 times, the Pirates 2 times, the Cubs 1 time, gave up 5 runs to the Dodgers and was only asked to go 4 innings vs the Cardinals in the last game of the year. End result, ERA 3.68. Believe me, 2-3 more starts following this stretch vs better teams, his ERA would have gone back up around 4. Bailey is a #4 pitcher who had the best year of his career. The point is, if the payroll is too high, and if another team wants to pay a lot for Bailey, it could end up improving the outlook in 2013, even through 2017 if a cost controlled contributor is brought back. In the end though, I can see where focusing on trading Bailey is the wrong idea. Others are confident the Reds have money to spend. So be it. If the payroll is 96 million this year, what will it be in 2014 when more raises kick in? Are we really seeing the Reds jumping into top 10 payroll status year after year? I think that's what extending Latos AND Homer would signal. I would love that. With those two pitchers you also have the chance to get them for less than a FA pickup of similar value for the next 3-4 years. It just requires the money. I've always seen the trajectory of the Reds leading to some level of sell offs, but right now that hasn't happened, in fact the total opposite did last year. They traded young cheap talent and kept the premier talent. I think the Reds, and their fans, have always wanted to spend a reasonable amount. I hope that becomes 100-120 million in the next 3-4 years. Who knows?

Do other pitchers not get to pitch against the Astros, Pirates and Cubs? His numbers are his numbers.

[mdccclxix]

Originally Posted by osuceltic

Do other pitchers not get to pitch against the Astros, Pirates and Cubs? His numbers are his numbers.

Yes they do, and they mostly seem to do pretty well don't they? Homer also got them all in a row, so he was able to build on it. I'm not saying he's a bad pitcher, he's average, which is awesome and I'd like to keep him if the Reds have money. We'll see how it plays out.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

You've convinced me. Let's stand pat and hope we simply get lucky next postseason.

Better, let's just not care.

After all, we had a fun time watching the regular season and they can never take that away from us. Maybe we can start flying "Had a Really Good Season" banners from the riverboat in CF.

[jojo]

Some peope on here act like they just picked door #2 and it was a donkey...

The Reds had a great season full of alot of exciting baseball and memories...

It's not like we're out $100 and left with egg on our faces as we have to figure out how to feed our new pet.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

You've convinced me. Let's stand pat and hope we simply get lucky next postseason.

A team should always try and improve.

But our current team doesn't have some sort of flaw which prevents them from being able to win a world series.

Our current team is without a doubt better than the Giants current team.


If we make the playoffs we'll have ,more or less, the same chance as every other team that makes the playoffs. Sure some teams chances are better than others, but it's not a material difference.

[mdccclxix]

The extent to which our desire as fans to win a championship will drive us to games to support the players and organization should/would/could determine the only possibility we have a say in what happens. People don't want to hear it but the Giants and Cardinals have great fan support that starts with an understanding about how baseball is about momentum. At least that's how it appears to me. You can add Red Sox fans to this list. Reds fans aren't bad, but they could be better. You want a championship? Be a better fan. Beyond that, the ownership is in place to create a championship team The days of worrying about that are gone.

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

A team should always try and improve.

But our current team doesn't have some sort of flaw which prevents them from being able to win a world series.

Our current team is without a doubt better than the Giants current team.


If we make the playoffs we'll have ,more or less, the same chance as every other team that makes the playoffs. Sure some teams chances are better than others, but it's not a material difference.

Sure, we could have gotten lucky and won it all per your theory.

I'm happy about last season.

But the same flaws I saw after 2010 are partially still around - CF & LF. While Ludwick had a good season, for me, the Reds still need a potent bat behind Votto to get him pitches. I don't see the point in paying a guy $20M per year and have him unprotected and unable to get maximum value out of him. Nor do I see the point of having sub-.300 OBP guys hitting in front of him.

As I've stated before, I think the Reds are in the drivers seat because they are built to contend, as is, for next season. I think the suitors will come to them. If a Herschel Walker-type deal is offered, you have to consider it if it improves our team. Probably won't happen, but we didn't think the Latos deal would happen either.

I think the Reds have a strong roster. I think it could be stronger depending on the right smart deal. But payroll is always a concern. Walt likes guys under control for awhile.

Interesting to see how this offseason plays out.

[757690]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

Better, let's just not care.

After all, we had a fun time watching the regular season and they can never take that away from us. Maybe we can start flying "Had a Really Good Season" banners from the riverboat in CF.

Reds will fly a 2012 NL Central Champs banner next season. The Giants and Nationals are the only other NL teams that will fly banners based on 2012.