What would it take to get Justin Upton?

[SidneySlicker]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

Okay. What would it take then to get Fowler and CarGo?

I view a leadoff hitter/CFer and power hitting cleanup hitter/LFer as the last 2 pieces of the offensive puzzle. I'm just trying to come up with ideas to solve the problem.

I'm tired of older retreads in LF and Stubbs in CF. Ludwick had a killer season. I don't think he can duplicate it. Fowler and CarGo are both only 26 with probably their best years ahead of them. The Reds have nearly every key position locked up long term or filled by players under control for awhile. Other than Billy Hamilton, and probably Corcino/Cingrani.......there is little to no room for anyone currently in the farm system to even reach the majors, as they would be blocked. Time to make some deals for the last pieces of the puzzle and win this thing.

I don't really know what needs the Rockies have to make guesses here. Cargo is an untouchable. He's unquestionably their best player and a league mvp level player who's only 27. Also if he begins any kind of decline his contract is going to becom an albatross around his team's neck. Here's his remaining figures and it's a backloaded contract
YR Age Salary
2013 (27) $7,500,000
2014 (28) $10,500,000
2015 (29) $16,000,000
2016 (30) $17,000,000
2017 (31) $20,000,000

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

That's a ton of money to add. CarGo, Fowler, Broxton and Madson add probably close to $30M to the payroll, and CarGo is still relatively cheap with huge increases coming.

And that's assuming Colorado would even do that trade.

That big new TV contract for MLB and locally for the Reds, including increased ticket prices, increased season ticket sales, and overall increased attendance will pay for that $30M.

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by SidneySlicker

I don't really know what needs the Rockies have to make guesses here. Cargo is an untouchable. He's unquestionably their best player and a league mvp level player who's only 27. Also if he begins any kind of decline his contract is going to becom an albatross around his team's neck. Here's his remaining figures and it's a backloaded contract
YR Age Salary
2013 (27) $7,500,000
2014 (28) $10,500,000
2015 (29) $16,000,000
2016 (30) $17,000,000
2017 (31) $20,000,000

$71M total, if I used my calculator correctly. Why not rewrite the contract and frontload it? Or make it an even $14.2M per season.

[lidspinner]

Originally Posted by jhu1321

Depends on there intentions with Chapman. If there is belief that he can be a TOR starter I think it makes Homer available to trade. If not, I think they start talking about Cingrani and Corcino. As much as I'm drooling about Homer's late season dominance, and the possibility of seeing more of that next year, it is the perfect sell high situation.

If they ask for Homer, Gregorious & Soto I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'd probably even be willing to include one of Cingrani/Corcino..........

in no way shape or form do I include one of the double C's.....those 2 have a very bright future and that future is going to start very soon for the Reds....I think you will see big things from both of those guys...be it starting or out of the pen, we are in great shape with those 2 and cheap doesnt hurt at all.....

[SidneySlicker]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

$71M total, if I used my calculator correctly. Why not rewrite the contract and frontload it? Or make it an even $14.2M per season.

That could be done. Don't get me wrong I'd be all for it. I just don't see it happening. He's their best player. It would be like the Reds trading Joey Votto. I just don't see them doing it. To get an all star, mvp level player you need to give up a player that is viewed as that or has the potential as having that same type of talent. They'd start talks with a Latos or if the Reds were lucky, Bailey, Billy Hamilton. and probably 2 other of the Reds top 10 prospects. That's just a guess.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

$71M total, if I used my calculator correctly. Why not rewrite the contract and frontload it? Or make it an even $14.2M per season.

You do realize that "frontloading" a contract actually makes it more expensive.

[jhu1321]

Originally Posted by lidspinner

in no way shape or form do I include one of the double C's.....those 2 have a very bright future and that future is going to start very soon for the Reds....I think you will see big things from both of those guys...be it starting or out of the pen, we are in great shape with those 2 and cheap doesnt hurt at all.....

I agree they have bright future(s) but it's clear we need another bat (preferably one that could protect Votto). Losing ONE of them would not be bad if it helped return another bat....... especially with the core of our rotation locked up through 2015.

[CySeymour]

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

You do realize that "frontloading" a contract actually makes it more expensive.

And players generally don't go for it, either.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by CySeymour

And players generally don't go for it, either.

They would prefer it.

[SidneySlicker]

Originally Posted by jhu1321

I agree they have bright future(s) but it's clear we need another bat (preferably one that could protect Votto). Losing ONE of them would not be bad if it helped return another bat....... especially with the core of our rotation locked up through 2015.

This is where I'm at right now. They need to upgrade this offense, and or nothing is going to change. They need a big bat.

[SidneySlicker]

Upton is the sexy player that's "allegedly" available. The more reasonable and probably more consistant player in my mind would be Shin Soo Choo. Even though Choo has Boras as his agent, I think he'd still be a cheaper resign then what you'd be paying for Upton. This would be my preference. I merely started this thread because I saw that talks had occured at the Gm's meetings reguarding Upton being traded.

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

You do realize that "frontloading" a contract actually makes it more expensive.

How does it make it more expensive? It's guaranteed. The total is $71M. If he gets more at the backend of it, he gets a total of $71M. If he gets more at the frontend of it, he gets a total of $71M.

We already have contracts that escalate/increase over the timeframe of the contract. Why not pay most of his sooner than later to even things out later in relation to Votto, Phillips, Bruce, Cueto's, and others to come.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

How does it make it more expensive? It's guaranteed. The total is $71M. If he gets more at the backend of it, he gets a total of $71M. If he gets more at the frontend of it, he gets a total of $71M.

We already have contracts that escalate/increase over the timeframe of the contract. Why not pay most of his sooner than later to even things out later in relation to Votto, Phillips, Bruce, Cueto's, and others to come.

Time value of money.

[M2]

1. If the plan is to move Chapman to the rotation, then it makes sense to see if Homer can land a big fish. I'm not in favor of shopping Homer to all 29 other teams, but I wouldn't mind the Reds putting him on the table for Upton.

2. Moving Cozart might be the wiser course of action to moving Gregorius. Cozart obviously has more pop, but it wouldn't be stunning if Gregorius could improve Cozart's OB from last year. And Gregorius is younger with higher end defensive skills. If it gets you a thumper like Upton, it might make sense to move a year early on handing the SS job to Gregorius.

3. CarGo should not be untouchable. The Rockies are a mess, nearly bereft of pitching throughout the organization. If CarGo can fetch some arms they really like, then they have to consider moving him. I'm not saying Bailey and Corcino are those arms, just that the Rox ought to have a price for CarGo (whose market value might drop when he gets more expensive in the future).

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by SidneySlicker

This is where I'm at right now. They need to upgrade this offense, and or nothing is going to change. They need a big bat.

Brace yourself. The way it's looking, you're gonna have Gomes or Ludwick back in the cleanup spot or maybe Jason Bay and management crossing their fingers. Cheap, cheap, and did I say cheap will be the answer at cleanup.