Reds Willing to Trade a SS

[MoneyInTheBank]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...gregorius.html

Personally, I'd have to be blown away to trade Gregorius. A 22 year old whose glove is ready right now and a bat comparable (minus the power) to the current starting SS. I think we forget since it was his rookie season that Cozart is 27 years old. Not saying he's old, but Gregorius has to be rated well above Cozart in the organizational structure IMO

[HometownHero]

I would like to send Stubbs and Cozart to Toronto for Yunel Escobar and Colby Rasmus and then sign Melky to play LF. Toronto saves some money and everyone gets a change of scenery.

SS Yunel Escobar R
LF Melky Cabrera S
1B Joey Votto L
2B Brandon Phillips R
RF Jay Bruce L
3B Todd Frazier R
CF Colby Rasmus L
Whoever Catches

This lineup and the fact we play half our games at GABP could lead the NL in runs.

[Hillsdale87]

Originally Posted by HometownHero

I would like to send Stubbs and Cozart to Toronto for Yunel Escobar and Colby Rasmus and then sign Melky to play LF. Toronto saves some money and everyone gets a change of scenery.

Only if Rasmus get his haircut... Not a good look

[foxfire123]

Problem with Rasmus is if you trade for him, you also trade for Daddy Dearest. And Colby listens to *nobody* about anything but Daddy Dearest.

Until Colby develops a backbone and tells dad to MYOB, I'd rather not see him play for the Reds.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Originally Posted by HometownHero

I would like to send Stubbs and Cozart to Toronto for Yunel Escobar and Colby Rasmus and then sign Melky to play LF. Toronto saves some money and everyone gets a change of scenery.

SS Yunel Escobar R
LF Melky Cabrera S
1B Joey Votto L
2B Brandon Phillips R
RF Jay Bruce L
3B Todd Frazier R
CF Colby Rasmus L
Whoever Catches

This lineup and the fact we play half our games at GABP could lead the NL in runs.

I just feel like with that trade, you are trading 2 underachievers with good attitudes for 2 underachievers with bad attitudes. You are getting no increase in production and some real bad apples. I'd hold out for something better

[HometownHero]

Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank

I just feel like with that trade, you are trading 2 underachievers with good attitudes for 2 underachievers with bad attitudes. You are getting no increase in production and some real bad apples. I'd hold out for something better

I will take the risk of drama for the upside both of these guys have. Both had better runs at a younger age outside the difficult AL East both having put up 800+ OPS years before the age of 25. Toronto saves money to fill other needs and gets less potential headaches but take back players with less upside so its a good trade for both on paper.

[HometownHero]

Originally Posted by foxfire123

Problem with Rasmus is if you trade for him, you also trade for Daddy Dearest. And Colby listens to *nobody* about anything but Daddy Dearest.

Until Colby develops a backbone and tells dad to MYOB, I'd rather not see him play for the Reds.

I think that played out as a bigger deal than it was because of LaRussa and then how everything Cards related gets blown out of proportion in that city. But even if he listen's to his dad and nobody else and it works then let him work with his dad. If he meets his potential hits around .280 with 30+ HR and 100 RBI and a good OBP would anyone honestly care who he works with?

[MoneyInTheBank]

Originally Posted by HometownHero

I will take the risk of drama for the upside both of these guys have. Both had better runs at a younger age outside the difficult AL East both having put up 800+ OPS years before the age of 25. Toronto saves money to fill other needs and gets less potential headaches but take back players with less upside so its a good trade for both on paper.

It doesn't bother you that Escobar likes to put derogatory remarks on his eyeblack or that Atlanta dumped him after those .800 OPS seasons because of attitude and effort issues?

It doesn't bother you that Colby Rasmus' dad is a micromanager who is openly critical of coaching in the media? Or that he has a career AVG of .243?

Personally, I want nothing to do with either of them

[HometownHero]

Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank

It doesn't bother you that Escobar likes to put derogatory remarks on his eyeblack or that Atlanta dumped him after those .800 OPS seasons because of attitude and effort issues?

It doesn't bother you that Colby Rasmus' dad is a micromanager who is openly critical of coaching in the media? Or that he has a career AVG of .243?

Personally, I want nothing to do with either of them

Nope, everyone makes mistakes.

Rasmus' .243 is better than .241 that Drew gives us and he's also 2 years younger. OPS+ Wise its 86 for Drew and 98 for Rasmus and then when you put Rasmus in a place like our park its even more exciting with his .914 OPS here. Escobar is a 99 OPS+ while Zack is a 82 in his career and had from more OBP potential something we need all while keeping up good defense.

[rgslone]

Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank

I just feel like with that trade, you are trading 2 underachievers with good attitudes for 2 underachievers with bad attitudes. You are getting no increase in production and some real bad apples. I'd hold out for something better

Money....surely you're not labeling Cozart as an underachiever after his Rookie year are you? I think we're all hoping for, and maybe even expecting, some offensive improvement from Cozart. But, personally, I was pretty pleased with his 1st year. Very good sure-handed fielder, some power and speed. Let's not forget what the Reds had to live with at SS between Larkin and Cozart.

[foxfire123]

But seriously HH, do you think an overall gain of only .02 in average and a 12 gain in OPS is worth the attitude and outside problems that come with Rasmus?

Really, there has to be better options than him out there.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Originally Posted by HometownHero

Nope, everyone makes mistakes.

Rasmus' .243 is better than .241 that Drew gives us and he's also 2 years younger. OPS+ Wise its 86 for Drew and 98 for Rasmus and then when you put Rasmus in a place like our park its even more exciting with his .914 OPS here. Escobar is a 99 OPS+ while Zack is a 82 in his career and had from more OBP potential something we need all while keeping up good defense.

Rasmus' OPS+ stats (and most of his other stats for that matter) are being carried by his 2010 season. Here are his career OPS+ numbers: 89, 132, 88, 85. That 132 screams outlier to me. For Stubbs: 99, 105, 86, 61. That 61 looks to be an outlier as well. I see it as a lateral move until you consider Rasmus' meddling dad and questionable attitude and work ethic. I agree that talent wise, no question, Rasmus takes it. There is no doubt I want an upgrade over Stubbs but Rasmus is not that guy for me

For me, Escobar is beyond "everyone makes mistakes". He's 30 years old and as of last season he used both a gay slur and a penis joke on his eye black. There has been numerous reports of a terrible attitude and work ethic. That is a pattern of behavior. I'm definitely not opposed to trading Cozart at all, but again, those 2 just do nothing for me.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Originally Posted by rgslone

Money....surely you're not labeling Cozart as an underachiever after his Rookie year are you? I think we're all hoping for, and maybe even expecting, some offensive improvement from Cozart. But, personally, I was pretty pleased with his 1st year. Very good sure-handed fielder, some power and speed. Let's not forget what the Reds had to live with at SS between Larkin and Cozart.

He played extremely well in his cup of coffee in 2011 and took a step back in 2012. That is what I meant by "underachieving". I'm not saying he's a bust or will never amount to anything, but he is 27 years old with a highly regarded option sitting behind him. A decision has to be made on him soon.

[HometownHero]

Originally Posted by foxfire123

But seriously HH, do you think an overall gain of only .02 in average and a 12 gain in OPS is worth the attitude and outside problems that come with Rasmus?

Really, there has to be better options than him out there.

How much more of a gain would it be coming to GABP when he has a .914? When you factor in what kind of damage he could do with our RF its very appealing.

[HometownHero]

Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank

Rasmus' OPS+ stats (and most of his other stats for that matter) are being carried by his 2010 season. Here are his career OPS+ numbers: 89, 132, 88, 85. That 132 screams outlier to me. For Stubbs: 99, 105, 86, 61. That 61 looks to be an outlier as well. I see it as a lateral move until you consider Rasmus' meddling dad and questionable attitude and work ethic. I agree that talent wise, no question, Rasmus takes it. There is no doubt I want an upgrade over Stubbs but Rasmus is not that guy for me

For me, Escobar is beyond "everyone makes mistakes". He's 30 years old and as of last season he used both a gay slur and a penis joke on his eye black. There has been numerous reports of a terrible attitude and work ethic. That is a pattern of behavior. I'm definitely not opposed to trading Cozart at all, but again, those 2 just do nothing for me.

Rasmus had a .259 BABIP this year and hit 23 HR and drove in 75 and the year before it was .267, we are talking about one of the more unlucky players in MLB. Stubbs in his down years the last 2 has a .290 and .343 BABIP.

Drew is a .241 hitter with a .323 career BABIP to put it into perceptive Pujols has a .309 BABIP as a .325 hitter. We are talking about a player 2 years younger with more upside and still better than Drew with him having poor luck vs Drew having good luck.

Escobar just turned 30 and he made a mistake, people do dumb things all the time but before he played in the difficult AL East he was a stud with high OBP something we need bad. And much like Rasmus he didn't have much luck with a .273 BABIP after posting .290/.369/.413/.782 in 2011 when the balls fell in. Cozart had a BABIP of .282 or 9 points higher and and still ended up hitting 7 points worse.

Both these guys also didn't play in the Al East with 3 of the AL's top 6 ERA in his division rather than just the Cards in top 6 here in at 6th and we only played them 15 times vs 18 games each with the teams in the AL East. Our Division also featured 3 or the 4 worst NL team ERA while the worst AL East pitching staff was just Boston.