As a Non-NFL Lover, why do the Bengals suck so much?

[BurgervilleBuck]

Originally Posted by Stray

I wasn't comparing the people running each team, just pointing out that the Reds haven't exactly been more successful than the Bengals in recent years. Their success has been very similar.

But I see far greater potential from the Reds than the Bengals. We have an owner who cares about the team and its history and even pays for his own video board upgrades.

The Bengals... well... let them move somewhere and put an MLS team in that stadium.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by BurgervilleBuck

For me, the Bengals greatness ended the day Paul Brown died and Mikey assumed control. Instead of football people. the Bengals FO consists of bean counters and lawyers, including the clown commissioner who negotiated their sweetheart lease.

I see folks comparing the Bengals and the Reds and I just don't buy it. The Reds have more experience in their front office, an owner that cares about the team and its heritage, and character. Counter that with an owner who steadfastly refuses to even bring his team into the 1990s, remains aloof, and pays himself for being a GM.

When you walk into GABP, you know it's a ballpark dedicated to the Reds and its fans. When you walk into PBS, it's as anonymous as a parking garage.

The Bengals can rot and anyone dumb enough to pay for tickets, gear, or beer there are the proverbial fools being parted from their money.

Actually, Mike Brown has been involved in running the team since its inception, and Paul Brown was just as cheap as his son. The difference is that Paul was a football genius.

[Todd Gack]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

Actually, Mike Brown has been involved in running the team since its inception, and Paul Brown was just as cheap as his son. The difference is that Paul was a football genius.

That rid the organization of Bill Walsh because he couldn't stand that someone else was supposedly smarter than he was.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by Todd Gack

That rid the organization of Bill Walsh because he couldn't stand that someone else was supposedly smarter than he was.

I don't think that was the case. I think it was more that PB wanted to reward a more senior coach and wanted Walsh to wait his turn. It was more his weird fixation on loyalty that got in the way of his better judgment. The Browns seem to have an almost pathological sense of loyalty that I think stems from Paul Brown's experience of getting fired by Art Modell.

[Todd Gack]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

I don't think that was the case. I think it was more that PB wanted to reward a more senior coach and wanted Walsh to wait his turn. It was more his weird fixation on loyalty that got in the way of his better judgment. The Browns seem to have an almost pathological sense of loyalty that I think stems from Paul Brown's experience of getting fired by Art Modell.

Bill Walsh thanked Paul Brown for giving him an opportunity to coach, but he stated Paul took all the credit when the offenses he created and produced did so well.

[BurgervilleBuck]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

Actually, Mike Brown has been involved in running the team since its inception, and Paul Brown was just as cheap as his son. The difference is that Paul was a football genius.

I don't think I didn't accuse PB of not being cheap. Or low frill. What I'm saying is that his legacy are running a team to maximize profit at the expense of performance.

[RiverRat13]

I think it was Lapham who said that when PB was being cheap, the players viewed it as old school. But when Mikey's cheap, the players just see it as a rich dude being cheap.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by RiverRat13

I think it was Lapham who said that when PB was being cheap, the players viewed it as old school. But when Mikey's cheap, the players just see it as a rich dude being cheap.

Paul Brown was cheap in a different game, a different business, his son is not in the same smaller business that 60s/70s football was in

In short PB got a nice life out of it, MBs family for generations will be set up

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Paul Brown was cheap in a different game, a different business, his son is not in the same smaller business that 60s/70s football was in

In short PB got a nice life out of it, MBs family for generations will be set up

True, but the Brown family's only business is football. Most NFL owners today made huge amounts of money outside football and still have profitable non-football businesses. They don't need their NFL operations to be profitable to earn a living.

MB and his family are extremely frugal. Some of it comes from PB. I think some of it comes from how they arranged the transfer of the Bengals' ownership from PB to MB, where PB sold majority interest in the team to another party on condition that MB had rights to buy the interest back at a later time, mainly to avoid the steep estate taxes they'd have to pay. I believe MB had to spend many years scrimping and saving just to get the money to buy the majority interest back. Nowadays, I think the Brown family is in a much better position financially, but it's a problem of "old habits die hard." It's not like MB is out living the high life off his NFL profits. The guy is famous for driving his Chevy Lumina around Cincinnati for years. Also, much of the Brown family wealth is tied up in the Bengals as an asset. You could say that the Browns are worth $800 million because they own the Bengals, but really, the only way the actually get $800 million is when they sell the Bengals.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

True, but the Brown family's only business is football. Most NFL owners today made huge amounts of money outside football and still have profitable non-football businesses. They don't need their NFL operations to be profitable to earn a living.

MB and his family are extremely frugal. Some of it comes from PB. I think some of it comes from how they arranged the transfer of the Bengals' ownership from PB to MB, where PB sold majority interest in the team to another party on condition that MB had rights to buy the interest back at a later time, mainly to avoid the steep estate taxes they'd have to pay. I believe MB had to spend many years scrimping and saving just to get the money to buy the majority interest back. Nowadays, I think the Brown family is in a much better position financially, but it's a problem of "old habits die hard." It's not like MB is out living the high life off his NFL profits. The guy is famous for driving his Chevy Lumina around Cincinnati for years. Also, much of the Brown family wealth is tied up in the Bengals as an asset. You could say that the Browns are worth $800 million because they own the Bengals, but really, the only way the actually get $800 million is when they sell the Bengals.

If they sold the team I'd party for a year

[camisadelgolf]

I'm rooting for the Bengals to lose every game until they sell the team.

[Stray]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

I'm rooting for the Bengals to lose every game until they sell the team.

Why?

If the team were over sold it could leave our city with only one professional sports team. And it's not like Mike Brown is going to be losing money regardless, owning an NFL team is basically a money tree.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by Stray

Why?

If the team were over sold it could leave our city with only one professional sports team. And it's not like Mike Brown is going to be losing money regardless, owning an NFL team is basically a money tree.

Sold doesn't imply move, it implies having an owner designed for today's NFL

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by Stray

Why?

If the team were over sold it could leave our city with only one professional sports team. And it's not like Mike Brown is going to be losing money regardless, owning an NFL team is basically a money tree.

westofyou already covered it. Fyi the Reds and Bengals aren't the only professional teams in Cincinnati.

[Stray]

Obviously a new owner wouldn't mean they'd definitely move, it just brings it into play. Regardless, it's not like Mike Brown is going to sell the team anyway. Cincinnati fans are overly dramatic in so many ways, the team used to be terrible then went all in with Carson. Mike didn't blow up Carson's knee or screw up his elbow, football did. Now we've rebuilt again and the future actually looks good. I think Mike has drafted well, made some really good coach signings, and I think he handled the Carson situation perfectly. Over the last 4 years or so you could argue that he's been among the best executives in football. How many teams are getting as much out of their drafts as we are?

But if you guys wanna root for losses until something that will never happen happens, then have fun with that I guess.

And please tell me you're not counting the Cyclones lol.