Buster Posey wins NL MVP - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

RedsManRick · 11-15-2012, 06:34 PM

http://bbwaa.com/12-nl-mvp/

Reds finish 10th (Bruce), 12th (Chapman), 13th (Phillips) and 14th (Votto).

mattfeet · 11-15-2012, 08:05 PM

Wow. Honestly that's a pretty impressive showing by the Reds.

oneupper · 11-16-2012, 08:55 AM

Votto, despite being out with injuries so much, actually led all MLB hitters in WPA. He just doesn't make that many outs.

_Sir_Charles_ · 11-16-2012, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneupper

Votto, despite being out with injuries so much, actually led all MLB hitters in WPA. He just doesn't make that many outs.

*busts out his English-to-Sabrespeak dictionary*

WPA means Wins Probability Added. Knowing the acronym helps some, but for the most part I remain in the dark.

nate · 11-16-2012, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

*busts out his English-to-Sabrespeak dictionary*

WPA means Wins Probability Added. Knowing the acronym helps some, but for the most part I remain in the dark.

Read about it here, it's very interesting.

Key point:

Quote:

For example, say the Rays have a 45% chance of winning before Ben Zobrist comes to the plate. During his at-bat, Zobrist hits a home run, pushing the Rays’ win expectancy jumps to 75%. That difference in win expectancy (in decimal form, +.30) from the beginning of the play to the end is Ben Zobrist’s WPA for that play. If Zobrist strikes out during his next at bat and lowers his team’s win expectancy by 5%, his overall WPA for the game so far would be +.30 – .05 = +.25, as WPA is a counting statistic and is additive.

_Sir_Charles_ · 11-16-2012, 09:46 AM

I actually was reading about it Nate. Thanks though. I only posted because it might be a good idea to not just throw in acronyms that aren't that commonly known outside the sabre-circle. Just a suggestion.

And upon a cursory glance thus far, it's quite impressive that Joey led the league in this stat especially since it's a counting stat basically.

oneupper · 11-16-2012, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

I actually was reading about it Nate. Thanks though. I only posted because it might be a good idea to not just throw in acronyms that aren't that commonly known outside the sabre-circle. Just a suggestion.

And upon a cursory glance thus far, it's quite impressive that Joey led the league in this stat especially since it's a counting stat basically.

Sorry. Guilty as charged. Yeah, its a counting stat and the MVP candidates in a given year are normally at the top of the leader board.

FWIW Trout was top in the AL, but Cabrera wasn't far back.

RedsManRick · 11-16-2012, 11:53 AM

From a simple raw counting standpoint, Joey Votto reached base 243 times last year, 23rd in MLB. He did that in 475 plate appearances. Of the people above him on the list, the next lowest PA total was Buster Posey, with 610 -- 135 more plate appearances than Votto. More than half of the people who reached base more times had at least 200 more plate appearances than Votto did. It's hard to overstate how impressive his OBP was.

If Votto kept up his production over the ~200 PA that he missed because of the injury, he would have have led the NL in WAR (8.4 fWAR compared to Posey's 8.0, 8.0 brWAR to Posey's 7.2). When he played, Votto was the best player in the NL in 2012. He just didn't play enough.

PuffyPig · 11-16-2012, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

When he played, Votto was the best player in the NL in 2012.

I assume you are excluding all the Cardinals from that statement, especially "Mr. Clutch", Dan Descalso?.

Rojo · 11-16-2012, 04:32 PM

2 first place votes for Yadier. What were those votes based on: the lower BA? the fewer HR's and RBI? the lack of a ring?

westofyou · 11-16-2012, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rojo

2 first place votes for Yadier. What were those votes based on: the lower BA? the fewer HR's and RBI? the lack of a ring?

Votes are before the playoffs, thus he had a ring

I bet it was the awesome neck tat

Rojo · 11-16-2012, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westofyou

Votes are before the playoffs, thus he had a ring

I bet it was the awesome neck tat

Or the pitch-framing Magick!

GADawg · 11-16-2012, 07:00 PM

i wish i could like Buster Posey but all the to do from Sabean and the Giants(and Posey I suppose as well) over him getting run over at the plate(like real catchers do from time to time)has turned me against him.....did I say "to do"? I meant whining

nate · 11-16-2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

From a simple raw counting standpoint, Joey Votto reached base 243 times last year, 23rd in MLB. He did that in 475 plate appearances. Of the people above him on the list, the next lowest PA total was Buster Posey, with 610 -- 135 more plate appearances than Votto. More than half of the people who reached base more times had at least 200 more plate appearances than Votto did. It's hard to overstate how impressive his OBP was.

If Votto kept up his production over the ~200 PA that he missed because of the injury, he would have have led the NL in WAR (8.4 fWAR compared to Posey's 8.0, 8.0 brWAR to Posey's 7.2). When he played, Votto was the best player in the NL in 2012. He just didn't play enough.

Wow.

PuffyPig · 11-16-2012, 08:28 PM

If|Votto had played 150 games at thew same level of production as he did in his other games, he would have been a shoe in for the MVP.

Once McCutheon fell off the table and the Brewers failed to contend, there went Votto's only competition.

Posey was a deserving winner, but he was 4th until the other events happened.

11-15-2012, 06:34 PM	#1
RedsManRick Stat Wanker Hodiernus Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 14,987	Buster Posey wins NL MVP http://bbwaa.com/12-nl-mvp/ Reds finish 10th (Bruce), 12th (Chapman), 13th (Phillips) and 14th (Votto). __________________ Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

11-15-2012, 08:05 PM	#2
mattfeet Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,412	Re: Buster Posey wins NL MVP Wow. Honestly that's a pretty impressive showing by the Reds.

11-16-2012, 08:55 AM	#3
oneupper Danger is my business! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Back in Florida Posts: 7,906	Re: Buster Posey wins NL MVP Votto, despite being out with injuries so much, actually led all MLB hitters in WPA. He just doesn't make that many outs. __________________ "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it." http://dalmady.blogspot.com

11-16-2012, 09:46 AM	#6
_Sir_Charles_ 2013 NL MVP and WS MVP Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 6,651	Re: Buster Posey wins NL MVP I actually was reading about it Nate. Thanks though. I only posted because it might be a good idea to not just throw in acronyms that aren't that commonly known outside the sabre-circle. Just a suggestion. And upon a cursory glance thus far, it's quite impressive that Joey led the league in this stat especially since it's a counting stat basically. __________________ “If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant’s life, she will choose to save the infant’s life without even considering if there is a man on base.” —Dave Barry

11-16-2012, 11:53 AM	#8
RedsManRick Stat Wanker Hodiernus Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 14,987	Re: Buster Posey wins NL MVP From a simple raw counting standpoint, Joey Votto reached base 243 times last year, 23rd in MLB. He did that in 475 plate appearances. Of the people above him on the list, the next lowest PA total was Buster Posey, with 610 -- 135 more plate appearances than Votto. More than half of the people who reached base more times had at least 200 more plate appearances than Votto did. It's hard to overstate how impressive his OBP was. If Votto kept up his production over the ~200 PA that he missed because of the injury, he would have have led the NL in WAR (8.4 fWAR compared to Posey's 8.0, 8.0 brWAR to Posey's 7.2). When he played, Votto was the best player in the NL in 2012. He just didn't play enough. __________________ Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance. Last edited by RedsManRick; 11-16-2012 at 11:57 AM.

11-16-2012, 04:32 PM	#10
Rojo Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: The Bush Leagues Posts: 8,433	Re: Buster Posey wins NL MVP 2 first place votes for Yadier. What were those votes based on: the lower BA? the fewer HR's and RBI? the lack of a ring? __________________ The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

11-16-2012, 07:00 PM	#13
GADawg Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 1,072	Re: Buster Posey wins NL MVP i wish i could like Buster Posey but all the to do from Sabean and the Giants(and Posey I suppose as well) over him getting run over at the plate(like real catchers do from time to time)has turned me against him.....did I say "to do"? I meant whining

11-16-2012, 08:28 PM	#15
PuffyPig Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 9,837	Re: Buster Posey wins NL MVP If\|Votto had played 150 games at thew same level of production as he did in his other games, he would have been a shoe in for the MVP. Once McCutheon fell off the table and the Brewers failed to contend, there went Votto's only competition. Posey was a deserving winner, but he was 4th until the other events happened.

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