Trade Billy Hamilton + other prospects for Justin Upton?

[rgslone]

I understand the excitement over Upton because of what his tools suggest he could be (and even what he's already shown to be would be nice in the Reds LF). But, personally I think the perfect trading partner and most realistic option involves the Twins. Get Willingham for LF and Revere for CF (Span would be even better, but then the Twins trade demands would be higher). The Twins have more CF options then they know what to do with, and Willingham is not in their long-term plans. The Twins are more than eager to trade and want pitching (first priority) and a SS. Two rational GMs ought to be able to make a mutually beneficial trade here.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by RedTruck

I hate that statement. Go all in...this year is the year..because last year wasn't?

I'd prefer the reds to make reasonable moves and be competitive for the next 2 decades, than make a large splash only for the sake of 1 or 2 seasons.

The reason this statement is a good statement because it was a TRUE statement...

What did the Reds need going into last offseason? A Lead-Off Hitter...

They were IMO one player away from being a 100 Win Team and going deep in the playoffs... a Legit Lead-Off Hitter... In fact, the lack of a Lead-Off Hitter had an affect on the entire lineup production....

So they could of went ALL IN last year but chose not to do so...

Same thing could be said about no left handed bench player... A HUGE Need... I mean, Give Jason Giambi a call.

[Redlegs Homer]

Bad year to need a left fielder. A trade might be better than gambling on Ludwick again or having to sign Jonny Gomes or Scott Hairston since the Reds can't afford the star of free agency in Michael Bourn. This is a rough place to be for the Reds.

[RedTruck]

Originally Posted by Hondo

The reason this statement is a good statement because it was a TRUE statement...

What did the Reds need going into last offseason? A Lead-Off Hitter...

They were IMO one player away from being a 100 Win Team and going deep in the playoffs... a Legit Lead-Off Hitter... In fact, the lack of a Lead-Off Hitter had an affect on the entire lineup production....

So they could of went ALL IN last year but chose not to do so...

Same thing could be said about no left handed bench player... A HUGE Need... I mean, Give Jason Giambi a call.

The reds had a 2 game series lead, needing just 1 win to close it out..with 3 games to play at home.

They choked. Sure the reds need a lead off hitter, but they didn't lose the series because of the lack of one.

They lost because our starting pitching was poor (during those series)

Latos giving up the grandslam to Posey putting us down by 6 in the 5th inning

Throwing leake out there giving up 4 er

Losing our ace Cueto.

Having a lead off hitter will definitely make this team more well rounded, but it's not such a urgent priority.

Personally, the priority should be making the right choice with Chapman, and making sure that if he does indeed take the starting role that they have good options to close.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by RedTruck

Having a lead off hitter will definitely make this team more well rounded, but it's not such a urgent priority.

No offense but this kind of loses your credibility.

[MoneyInTheBank]

I disagree that a leadoff hitter is a must have this offseason and that saying otherwise blows your credibility. What this team needs is another guy who can get on base. This team finished 21st in baseball with a .315 OBP and that was with Votto's otherworldly figure. The only playoff teams that finished lower were Oakland and Baltimore. Look how far they got in the playoffs.

If that guy doesn't hit leadoff, that's fine with me. It would be ideal if they did hit 1st or 2nd but Phillips can hold down leadoff adequately. I see no reason to pigeonhole yourself by only looking for leadoff hitters when there are plenty of ways to make this thing work

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank

I disagree that a leadoff hitter is a must have this offseason and that saying otherwise blows your credibility. What this team needs is another guy who can get on base. This team finished 21st in baseball with a .315 OBP and that was with Votto's otherworldly figure. The only playoff teams that finished lower were Oakland and Baltimore. Look how far they got in the playoffs.

If that guy doesn't hit leadoff, that's fine with me. It would be ideal if they did hit 1st or 2nd but Phillips can hold down leadoff adequately. I see no reason to pigeonhole yourself by only looking for leadoff hitters when there are plenty of ways to make this thing work

Reds leadoff hitters combined to bat .208 with a .254 on-base percentage -- both ranked last in the Major Leagues. The No. 1 hitters scored 83 runs, tied for the second-worst among the 30 big league teams.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...s_cin&c_id=cin

I guess the rest of the baseball world and I are wrong...

[MoneyInTheBank]

Originally Posted by Hondo

Reds leadoff hitters combined to bat .208 with a .254 on-base percentage -- both ranked last in the Major Leagues. The No. 1 hitters scored 83 runs, tied for the second-worst among the 30 big league teams.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...s_cin&c_id=cin

I guess the rest of the baseball world and I are wrong...

Did you read my whole post? Or just the first sentence?

3/4 or more of the ABs in the leadoff spot went to Cozart and Stubbs. They had 2 of the worst OBP in all of baseball last year. Phillips did struggle in his limited opportunities there this season but has a .322 career OBP and hit very well there in 2011. The whole crux of my post was that if they can acquire a player with strong on base skills but is not a leadoff type, Phillips can hold it down until Hamilton is ready or they are able to find someone else.

[rgslone]

I think a few of you guys may be trying to split hairs too finely. The point everybody agrees on is that the Reds desperately need guys on base ahead of Votto. Otherwise, you have a colossal waste of one of the best potential RBI machines in baseball. That's why in another thread I speculated about HRod playing 3B for the Reds - not because he's ready or even the ideal option for manning 3B, but because he may be the best OBP option the Reds have internally if they don't bring someone in. BP is versatile, but he can only hit in one spot at a time. In my opinion, the Reds need two additional hitters - either two high OBP guys (in which case BP could hit 4th) or 1 high OBP guy & one power hitter (in which case BP could hit 1st or 2nd).

[Hondo]

If we can get back to the real point of this post...

The Diamondbacks are looking for a SS and Cozart fits what they need for Upton...

Look here: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...y-peralta.html

Zack Cozart is younger and less expensive than Jhonny Peralta and going off last year, I would say Cozart has more upside who can easily out perform Peralta's season best numbers in all categories, except for Steals...

So if Arizona is looking at Peralta, you've got to know that Cozart fits their need for a starting point in the Justin Upton sweepstakes...

Send them Corcino and a couple more prospects not named Billy Hamilton and I think Arizona pulls the trigger.

[New York Red]

I really, really, really want to see Billy Hamilton in a Reds uniform. It would have to be a block buster kind of deal for me to include him in any trade talk.

[Redlegs Homer]

Originally Posted by New York Red

I really, really, really want to see Billy Hamilton in a Reds uniform. It would have to be a block buster kind of deal for me to include him in any trade talk.

Justin Upton would qualify as a blockbuster. Bill James is projecting him to have a .372 OBP, .492 slugging%, and 28.1 wRAA. 5 tool player who would be perfect for the Reds. Billy Hamilton would be a bummer to give up before he plays in the majors but Justin Upton would make the Reds the best team in the NL.

[nmculbreth]

If you're going to put together a package along the lines of Hamilton + Corcino / Cingrani for a cleanup hitter I'd be targeting Giancarlo Stanton, not Upton. Stanton is under control for an extra year and since he's not even going to be arbitration eligible until after 2013 would carry a far more reasonable salary.

And for the record I'd pull the trigger on a Hamilton + Corcino / Cingrani + another B level prospect for Stanton in a nanosecond.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by nmculbreth

If you're going to put together a package along the lines of Hamilton + Corcino / Cingrani for a cleanup hitter I'd be targeting Giancarlo Stanton, not Upton. Stanton is under control for an extra year and since he's not even going to be arbitration eligible until after 2013 would carry a far more reasonable salary.

And for the record I'd pull the trigger on a Hamilton + Corcino / Cingrani + another B level prospect for Stanton in a nanosecond.

I agree with you but Arizona wants a ML Ready SS so you wouldn't have to include Hamilton for Upton... Cozart fits the bill with Corcino, etc...

Now Hamilton for Stanton???? Yes, Please.

[dkamberi25]

I have been thinking about the possibility of trading for Upton and with Arizona publicly stating they would want SS's and SP's in return makes a trade possible. Now Upton has 3 yrs and 38 mill left which isin't top money, but it is a big number and with reports that the Reds don't want payroll to top 90 mill it may be tough to fit Upton on the squad financially. However, if the Reds feel like they can win in the next three years than its worth the risk of going slightly over budget. Also, Upton would only be 28 when his contract expires and could be moved at the deadline in his last season if he is not in the teams longterm future.

Now onto what to give up. At shortstop we have Gregorius, Hamilton and Cozart and at starting pitching we have Stephenson, Corcino and Leake. With reports stating Arizona wants major league ready players I would think the trade would have to begin with Cozart and Leake. After that I would be ok including either Stephenson or Corcino along with a lower rated prospect for Upton. However, I would have to feel really confident about Gregorius starting the season at shortstop to pull the trigger. Or if they don't feel Gregrious is ready for the bigs, than they better have some FA in line (Cedeno) to pull the trigger.

While this trade doesn't give us a legit leadoff hitter, which would force us to keep Phillips there, there are some major positives from making this move. First and foremost would be our killer 3-4-5 spot with Votto, Upton and Bruce. That would be absolute murder and with Fraizer batting behind that he should see an increase in his numbers as well. I would imagine our squad looking something like this.

Phillips
Gregrious/Cedeno
Votto
Upton
Bruce
Fraizer
Hanigan/Mesoraco
Stubbs

That number two spot is the biggest question mark, but another possible avenue for the Reds to explore if they make the Upton trade and think Gregrious is ready and don't like Cedeno is calling up the Royals and seeing how open they would be to moving Escobar. He would more than fit the bill at the number 2 spot.