Why hasn't Cincinnati grown as a city?

[fearofpopvol1]

Originally Posted by MrRedLegger

Cincinnati is a major city there's no doubt. I think the OP was trying to touch on the size of the fan base and home game attendance.


Consider geographics. Cleveland attracts pretty much all of Ohio fan bases minus Cincinnati through the south side of Columbus. Indianapolis is only 2 hours away, and although there is a big chunk of the fan base there I'd say thar Indiana's fan market also shares with one of Chicago's two teams, Milwaukee, and/or Detroit. To the east you have Pennsylvania which is home to 2 professional traditioin-rich ballclubs in cities with huge populations. Kentucky supports the Reds (and Louisville bats) but we all know that Cats Basketball is the blood type of 95% of Kentuckians.

For what it is, I think Cincinnati is thriving as a city and is doing very well as a fan market for their sports. The Cyclones have won the Kelly Cup twice in the last 4 years and their games are GREAT to go watch. UC football has had success despite Brian Kelly's antics. The crosstown shootout is as fired up as it could be.

Look for Reds attendance to go up yet again next year. No one is looking more forward to opening day than Reds Nation.

Besides, in case you didn't know, Lonely Planet Travel Guide ranked Cincinnati USA as a top 3 travel destination. So let's go! "Book your stay at Cincinnati USA dot commmmm!!"

you all just sang that song in your head when you read it.

I just wanted to clarify this. I would say Indianapolis is almost exclusively Reds/Cubs. You may see small factions of White Sox/Cardinals fans, but Tigers fans are rare. In the early 2000s, especially after the Cubs had a run, I would say Reds fans were diminishing. Even though Indy has always gotten WLW, no games were televised (not even nationally because the Reds stunk and weren't featured) and even if you wanted to see games, they were blacked out by all the available packages. Cubs games, by contrast, were still televised pretty frequently on WGN and as mentioned previously, the Cubs were a very good team. It was depressing in 2003. I had never seen so many Cubs come out of the woodwork as I had then and they were annoying.

In either 2006 or 2007, Fox Sports Indiana began televising most Reds games, which has been a huge boost, while WGN televises fewer Cubs games. It also doesn't hurt that the Reds are now good and the Cubs are lousy. Even the local Indianapolis Sports Radio shows now talk about the Reds in their commentary. I'd guess the majority of fans in Indy are now Reds fans, with Cubs fans being secondary.

[fearofpopvol1]

As for the original question posed in this thread, I am by no means a Cincinnati expert. I was born in Cincinnati and my parents were born and raised, but I didn't live there for a significant part of my life. However, I have visited there a lot ever since my childhood. However, my visits were somewhat sheltered I would say until I was able to drive.

I can remember many moons ago driving through OTR and it being 1 of the scariest places I had ever seen, still to this day. I didn't even get out of the car and I could see drug deals going down in plain daylight. From what some have said here, that has been cleared up? At least to some degree?

I used to drive sometimes from Indy to Cincinnati to go to shows at Bogarts as well. That venue has always gotten great shows. I remember having a ticket to a show I bought in advance and it was during the race riots and the show being cancelled! I wouldn't say the UC campus was as scary as OTR, but I definitely felt like I had to be alert. But it seemingly improved a bit over the years up until the time I left Indianapolis. But now it sounds like it may be worse?

Downtown has come leaps and bounds from what it used to be. I used to be a bit worried about going downtown to games, but I think the way they've transformed down there has been awesome.

I'm sure there are still some rough areas and scary parts, but I guess I haven't had any reason to go there, unless Vine near UC counts. It's not a perfect city and there's still work to do, but it has come a long way over the last decade or two.

[camisadelgolf]

I don't have data to back this up, but I do 90+% of my business around OtR, Clifton, CUF, and Northside. People say OtR has come a long way, which is both true and false. Certain sections of OtR have been cleaned up significantly, but others are no different than they were a decade ago. The area around Bogart's--Corryville (not Clifton)--has been getting worse over the years, but it might have hit a floor as far as how "bad" or "unsafe" it is.

[Caveat Emperor]

OtR has been a slow burn, no doubt about that. However, the progress in just the last few years has been tremendous.

I do get the feeling, and I'm not saying this just as a Cincinnati homer, that they're about to hit a tipping point and the neighborhood is really going to start changing quickly. If I had the money, I'd have invested down there.

[TeamCasey]

Originally Posted by Bob Sheed

It's a crime report that was sent to every UC employee. So, no, I don't have a link to emails sent to me years ago.

It may look similar to this? http://www.uc.edu/publicsafety/polic...tatistics.html

[Yachtzee]

I think growth in Ohio in general has been hampered by having to deal with a lot of the consequences of industrialization in the first half of the 20th century, which raised the cost of doing business in the state. As much as people want to blame jobs going overseas, I think we've seen a lot of companies move out of state to places with lower taxes and better weather. That being said, I think eventually companies and people are going to have to look toward states like Ohio, where we have abundant natural resources, especially fresh water, and a relatively low cost of living. There were reasons why Ohio and the Midwest in general were the center of economic development in the US for much of its history. I think companies and people have forgotten those reasons as they've rushed to move to warmer climates.

[Rojo]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

There were reasons why Ohio and the Midwest in general were the center of economic development in the US for much of its history.

The Ohio River, part of a great inland transportation system that flowed through New Orleans and onto the rest of the world.

It became less important after the St. Lawrence opened. Same thing happened to a lot of small towns on the Erie Canal.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by Rojo

The Ohio River, part of a great inland transportation system that flowed through New Orleans and onto the rest of the world.

It became less important after the St. Lawrence opened. Same thing happened to a lot of small towns on the Erie Canal.

It was more than just transportation. The Great Lakes region had and still has abundant land, fresh water, low energy costs and a central location that, regardless of mode of transport, keeps costs down. On the other hand, if you look at the South and Southwest, they lack at least one of those components, the most striking being water. Look at some of the water supplies for major cities in the South and Southwest and you'll find a shocking decrease in available fresh water. My family used to take vacations to Lake Lanier in Georgia in the '80s, which also happens to be the main water supply for Atlanta. In recent years, the lake has seen record lows, with Florida and Alabama filing suit against Georgia to keep them from drawing so much water out to supply Atlanta. Some of the issues are drought related, but a lot of it is overdevelopment. Or look at the problems with Lake Mead and the Colorado River. Nevada, Arizona and California draw so much water out that Lake Mead could be empty in a decade. The Colorado River stopped making it to the sea generations ago. Yet short sighted people keep building and moving there. I saw a show on the History Channel where they predicted that Las Vegas could be a ghost town by 2050 because there won't be any water left for drinking or Hydroelectric power.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

I saw a show on the History Channel where they predicted that Las Vegas could be a ghost town by 2050 because there won't be any water left for drinking or Hydroelectric power.

I wonder if you place a wager in Vegas about that, if it happens will you be able to cash in?

[dougdirt]

While I haven't heard the story yet, the news is on in the other room and apparently UC was named one of the most dangerous schools in the country.

[camisadelgolf]

UC was ranked the 13th-most dangerous campus. I haven't read the article yet, but I'll link it if I come across it again.

[camisadelgolf]

http://www.wlwt.com/news/local-news/...?absolute=true

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

http://www.wlwt.com/news/local-news/...?absolute=true

Thanks. I was looking for it online somewhere when I heard about it, but couldn't find anything.