Gammons says Upton in mix if Gregorius is

[I(heart)Freel]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

I think what a lot of teams are looking for now are power arms and I don't know if you would describe Leake as a power arm, at least not compared to the other talent in the majors. There are a ton of young, up and coming power arms in the majors and I feel that if teams offer the chips they have, the Diamonbacks will look more favorably on those chips than Leake. For example (to keep it locally from my standpoint), if the Cardinals offered Shelby Miller and Trevor Rosenthal as part of a package for Upton, I'm willing to bet that the Diamondbacks take that package over a package the Reds offer with Leake. I can give you other teams prospects in the same type of scenario and the result would probably be the same.

I suspect Leake's change-of-pace arm would sit nicely in the DBack's power roto. Further his Arroyo-like career.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

No flak on this one. I bet most here agree with me that he is not a top 100 guy.

I think you and a lot of others who share your opinion are going to be quite surprised at where Gregorius does rank inside Top 100s.

Look at the Baseball America league rankings. He was inside the top 20 for both leagues he was in and the Top 10 in one of them. In the upper minor leagues. In the Southern League he ranked higher than Daniel Corcino, who I don't doubt just about everyone on here would say is a top 100 prospect, right? Scouts really like Gregorius. He is no Profar, but heck, how many guys are? That kid is arguably the best prospect in baseball.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by 757690

If the Cardinals offered Miller and Rosenthal to the Reds for Leake I pray that they are quick enough to take it before the Cardinals chafe their mind. Lol

But that just means that two good pitchers getting paid league minimum and under control for five+ seasons are more valuable than one good pitcher whose about to get expensive and under control for only three more seasons.

However, I think Leake is worth more than either Miller or Rosenthal by themselves. I doubt teams care how hard a guy throws, if he gets results. Leake is proven decent starting pitcher. There are only around 50-75 of those guys around the league, which makes him more valuable than a young arm who hasn't nearly every time.

I know Leake is still young but right now, he's proven as of right now he's an average starting pitcher in this league. Granted he plays in Great American so some consideration has to be taken there. However, he's been a 97 ERA+ pitcher in the majors. That isn't exactly spectacular.

I agree with you about Miller. He's unknown right now and has a ton of upside. I don't know what to expect from him. However, Rosenthal has been dominant thus far in his major league experience (short sample size I know). The Cardinals are facing the same issues that the Reds are with Chapman. They are debating whether to start him or keep him in relief. If the Cards keep him or not, Rosenthal will give any team he's with nasty, high quality stuff. His fastball is 100+, has a crazy good curve, and his changeup is very good in the 80's. He's as legit as you're going to get when it comes to power arms. Furthermore, he was unhittable in the playoffs.

[SidneySlicker]

It's time to go all in. With Hamilton coming sometime in 2013 and hopefully starting in 2014, I think adding a player like Upton could be the piece to the puzzle that this team needs to get them over the hump. While I like Ludwick, lets not settle on a stopgap in LF. Lets build a team that can go on a run.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I think you and a lot of others who share your opinion are going to be quite surprised at where Gregorius does rank inside Top 100s.

Look at the Baseball America league rankings. He was inside the top 20 for both leagues he was in and the Top 10 in one of them. In the upper minor leagues. In the Southern League he ranked higher than Daniel Corcino, who I don't doubt just about everyone on here would say is a top 100 prospect, right? Scouts really like Gregorius. He is no Profar, but heck, how many guys are? That kid is arguably the best prospect in baseball.

I don't think there is an argument here. He IS the best prospect in baseball. I wouldn't say it's not even close but it's close to not even being close.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

I don't think there is an argument here. He IS the best prospect in baseball. I wouldn't say it's not even close but it's close to not even being close.

I don't know, I could at least listen to an argument for Dylan Bundy.

[Wonderful Monds]

Originally Posted by 757690

If the Cardinals offered Miller and Rosenthal to the Reds for Leake I pray that they are quick enough to take it before the Cardinals chafe their mind. Lol

Incidentally, Peter Gammons chafing his mind is what caused the Tweet that led to this thread.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I don't know, I could at least listen to an argument for Dylan Bundy.

mehh... I'll still take a regular starter over a starting pitcher.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

mehh... I'll still take a regular starter over a starting pitcher.

I am with you. But I know some scouts who wouldn't be. With that said, I expect Profar to be #1 on every major prospect list that comes out between now and March.

[Scrap Irony]

Originally Posted by SidneySlicker

According to Cleveland radio the Indians reportedly just pulled out of a trade of Cabrera that was close because the trade partner wouldn't add a 3rd prospect. This would have led you to believe the third prospect would have got it done. Now we don't know what prospects were involved, but maybe the trade market isn't as stiff as some of us think.

Were I Jocketty, I'd offer Leake, Corcino, and Yorman Rodriguez for Asdrubal Cabrera, plug him in at SS, and deal both Gregorius and Cozart (among other, less talented prospects) in a three-way deal:

Cincinnati sends Gregorius to Arizona and Cozart to Tampa. They receive Upton.
Arizona sends Upton to Cincinnati and receives Gregorius.
Tampa sends Jeremy Helickson to Arizona and receives Zack Cozart and Drew Stubbs.

Works for all three teams, IMO.

[Wonderful Monds]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

Were I Jocketty, I'd offer Leake, Corcino, and Yorman Rodriguez for Asdrubal Cabrera, plug him in at SS, and deal both Gregorius and Cozart (among other, less talented prospects) in a three-way deal:

Cincinnati sends Gregorius to Arizona and Cozart to Tampa. They receive Upton.
Arizona sends Upton to Cincinnati and receives Gregorius.
Tampa sends Jeremy Helickson to Arizona and receives Zack Cozart and Drew Stubbs.

Works for all three teams, IMO.

Tampa doesn't care about SS because they have Hak Ju Lee.

[vic715]

Originally Posted by SidneySlicker

Looking further into Fowler I've changed my mind. I didn't realize that Fowler has never ops'd over 800. Upton has nearly ops'd 900 twice and come close to opsing 800 in his only other two major league seasons.
I also thought he was more of a stolen base threat than he really is.

Fowler is a leadoff hitter so his OBP is more important than the slugging aspect of the OPS.

[Wonderful Monds]

Originally Posted by vic715

Fowler is a leadoff hitter so his OBP is more important than the slugging aspect of the OPS.

His price tag necessitates that he hit for power, however.

[Tom Servo]

Apparently the Phillies and D'Backs are discussing Upton for Cliff Lee.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

Apparently the Phillies and D'Backs are discussing Upton for Cliff Lee.

Amaro strongly denies.

Fay reporting Reds have talked to Arizona, and Parra, Kubel and Upton are all (obviously) available. He doubts the Reds could afford Upton.

So include Masset and/or Stubbs in the deal and better prospects (Gregorius, Leake, Corcino, Lutz). I really, really want to see Upton on this team.