Your favorite Jocketty deal?

[CarolinaRedleg]

Latos. Sending blocked prospects plus a guy I would have personally driven at my own expense to San Diego, Toronto, Seattle, Abu Dhabi or anywhere distant just to be rid of, for a young, legit, top of the rotation arm.

[Vottomatic]

I like the Choo trade. We gave up nothing and got possibly the piece of the puzzle that sends this team to a championship.

Stubbs was a bust.
Gregorius will be a utility infielder in the majors. That's his ceiling.

[757690]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

Scott Rolen transformed the culture of the organization. He gave the young talent an example, every day/night, of how a Hall of Famer prepares, plays, and carries himself as a ballplayer.

By far my favorite deal Walt has made.

Totally agree.

No way the Reds are contenders if this trade isn't made. Can't say that about any other deal.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by 757690

Totally agree.

No way the Reds are contenders if this trade isn't made. Can't say that about any other deal.

Really? No way? So all of our players are all of a sudden this good because of what Scott Rolen told them along the way? Joey Votto is Joey Votto because of Scott Rolen? Jay Bruce is the same way? Homer Bailey, Johnny Cueto, Aroldis Chapman and Mat Latos are only as good as they are because of the magical words of Scott Rolen?

[Patrick Bateman]

Going with Rolen.

That maybe changed the culture in a way we will never be able to understand. It didn't seem like much at the time, but signaled a complete shift in the way the organization worked.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Really? No way? So all of our players are all of a sudden this good because of what Scott Rolen told them along the way? Joey Votto is Joey Votto because of Scott Rolen? Jay Bruce is the same way? Homer Bailey, Johnny Cueto, Aroldis Chapman and Mat Latos are only as good as they are because of the magical words of Scott Rolen?

I'm thinking 757690 may not have completely expressed his thoughts properly there...but what do I know.

However, I know you are not a fan of that trade Doug, but lets heed the words of Joey Votto himself regarding Rolen.

"He changed my path as a player."

Now does that mean that the Reds would not be in contention today? Absolutely not. But I wouldn't be so quick to ignore and laugh at Rolen's influence either.

Yes, I know you are laughing at the post you quoted and the absurbity of your response, but you also asked, "Joey Votto is Joey Votto because of Scott Rolen?". To which I would say, "to some extent, yes he is".

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

Yes, I know you are laughing at the post you quoted and the absurbity of your response, but you also asked, "Joey Votto is Joey Votto because of Scott Rolen?". To which I would say, "to some extent, yes he is".

I just don't buy it, even if Votto said it. Has nothing to do with the trade or how I feel about it. Has everything to do with how I feel about "clubhouse" changing the skillsets of baseball players.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I just don't buy it, even if Votto said it. Has nothing to do with the trade or how I feel about it. Has everything to do with how I feel about "clubhouse" changing the skillsets of baseball players.

Has nothing to do with the actual skillset.

Could very well have an effect on the use of skillset.

Lots of talented baseball players who never did a damn thing.

I don't know the effect of what Rolen did, but I'm open to the idea that the effect is more than we are capable of illustrating. There's a lot about baseball we will never be able to prove. I posit that the effect that Rolen had on the Reds is one of them.

[757690]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Really? No way? So all of our players are all of a sudden this good because of what Scott Rolen told them along the way? Joey Votto is Joey Votto because of Scott Rolen? Jay Bruce is the same way? Homer Bailey, Johnny Cueto, Aroldis Chapman and Mat Latos are only as good as they are because of the magical words of Scott Rolen?

That's exactly what I am saying.

2009 was the year Votto had his panic attacks. There was real concern if he would ever be able to handle being a major league player. I honestly believe that had Rolen not been acquired, Votto would likely not have been able to handle it, and continue to suffer his panic attacks, and not be able to continue playing at the level we are used to. Votto's recent quotes about Rolen's influence on him only provide further evidence of this.

Jay Bruce was having his worst year ever as a baseball player. There were doubts if he could put it all together, and concerns that he could crash and burn altogether. Maybe he would have put it together without Rolen, but again I am convinced that Rolen helped Bruce immensely in his effort to mature into an All-Star.

Brandon Phillips' stats have stayed rather constant, but before Rolen, the press hated to deal with him, and he had numerous incidents on and off the field which demonstrated a lack of maturity. He had overcome all of that and is currently a media and fan darling. It's silly to dismiss Rolen's role in this.

But more importantly, on a bigger grander scale, Rolen brought a winning , confident culture to the club. One would have to be blind not to have noticed it.

Maybe none of this was Rolen, maybe it was Logan Ondrusek who came to the Reds around the same time, or maybe it was Jim Kelch or a new batboy. But we have no evidence it was any of them, yet plenty of evidence it was Rolen. And that was before the recent Votto interview.

[WVRedsFan]

Rolen. That's when we turned the corner, but I like all of them. Hail Walt.

[WVRedsFan]

For so long after Bowden left (and I shudder as I say this), and maybe before, we tended to take players from the trash bin. A Majewski and Bray here and a (insert name) there, but no one of any significance. All of a sudden, along came Rolen, Choo, and Ludwick. Add to that Marshall, Madsen (good idea), Broxton and the footfalls, but solid choices. No more fodder. Great baseball judgment and performance. I'm all in. now if we can forget valdez's last year, and Cairo in 2012, as well as some others, the record is clear.

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by WVRedsFan

For so long after Bowden left (and I shudder as I say this), and maybe before, we tended to take players from the trash bin. A Majewski and Bray here and a (insert name) there, but no one of any significance. All of a sudden, along came Rolen, Choo, and Ludwick. Add to that Marshall, Madsen (good idea), Broxton and the footfalls, but solid choices. No more fodder. Great baseball judgment and performance. I'm all in. now if we can forget valdez's last year, and Cairo in 2012, as well as some others, the record is clear.

You're always going to have some fodder. The difference is that Walt also makes moves to obtain legitimate talent, while Bowden/O'Brien/Krivsky were more focused on trying to strike gold rummaging through the fodder.

[RedsBaron]

I was torn between voting for the acquisition of Latos and the acquisition of Chapman. I finally voted for neither.
I voted for the acquisition of Rolen. My reasoning was that I would have made the deal for Latos if I had been the Reds GM and I would have signed Chapman if my owner turned loose the necessary cash, but I would not have traded for Rolen.
I thought Rolen had nothing left at the time Walt acquired him and that the move made little sense, because the Reds will still several players away from contention.
I was wrong.
I like having a GM who is smarter and more knowledgable than I am.

[cumberlandreds]

I voted Rolen. At the time I didn't think much of it. But it proved to be the move that made this organization relevant again.
The Chapman signing proved to me that this organization was serious about being a contender. It shocked me when he was signed. I never thought the Reds would even be in the conversation for him.

[vaticanplum]

Originally Posted by 757690

That's exactly what I am saying.

2009 was the year Votto had his panic attacks. There was real concern if he would ever be able to handle being a major league player. I honestly believe that had Rolen not been acquired, Votto would likely not have been able to handle it, and continue to suffer his panic attacks, and not be able to continue playing at the level we are used to. Votto's recent quotes about Rolen's influence on him only provide further evidence of this.

Jay Bruce was having his worst year ever as a baseball player. There were doubts if he could put it all together, and concerns that he could crash and burn altogether. Maybe he would have put it together without Rolen, but again I am convinced that Rolen helped Bruce immensely in his effort to mature into an All-Star.

Brandon Phillips' stats have stayed rather constant, but before Rolen, the press hated to deal with him, and he had numerous incidents on and off the field which demonstrated a lack of maturity. He had overcome all of that and is currently a media and fan darling. It's silly to dismiss Rolen's role in this.

But more importantly, on a bigger grander scale, Rolen brought a winning , confident culture to the club. One would have to be blind not to have noticed it.

Maybe none of this was Rolen, maybe it was Logan Ondrusek who came to the Reds around the same time, or maybe it was Jim Kelch or a new batboy. But we have no evidence it was any of them, yet plenty of evidence it was Rolen. And that was before the recent Votto interview.

I do not think Scott Rolen stopped Joey Votto's panic attacks. My guess is Votto was dealing with a lot of stuff, in the wake of his father's death and who knows what else, and my impression is that he was clear-headed enough to find ways to deal with it professionally and on his own, something that's not always easy for athletes, who are encouraged to show no sign of "weakness".

That's not to minimize the Rolen effect. I love him too, and I agree that things like Phillips's handling of the media absolutely smacks of his influence. But panic attacks and depression are not the kind of thing that are cured by a strong clubhouse presence. Joey Votto is today's Joey Votto because he is tough and had the courage to deal with his stuff instead of bury it. Maybe the fancy coffee helped too.