Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

[kaldaniels]

Wouldn't it be funny if Stubbs turns out to be the premier player from here on out in this trade, from amongst Choo, Didi, and Stubbs himself. It's certainly possible.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by traderumor

I think the point is that dogmatism on ballplayers makes folks look foolish later, then they get offended because their foolishness is linked. Exhibit One--Zach Stewart's Cy Young Award is still a running joke on here.

Exactly. Stating items as a matter of fact when it comes to prospects is extremely foolish and comes accross as extremely arrogant.

Of course Doug can say what he wants, but it's no wonder why stuff like the Zach Stewart quote gets thrown around for a half decade when it's assigned to such an arrogantly presented position. The "you need to stop doing stuff like this" post was meant as more advice than an order.

[Kc61]

There's a long, long line of prospects in baseball who are slick fielding shortstops and ultimately come up short on offense.

We can name a dozen of them in the Reds' system since RedsZone began, maybe more.

The jury is obviously out on whether Didi will have enough stick to rise above this list. He may well, it's a gamble, nobody on earth knows.

If he turns out to have a .750 OPS or thereabouts, or better, he will be a very, very valuable player. If not, he will have some value mostly due to defense. And he could wind up as a good defensive backup player.

We can debate it forever, time will tell, I value Doug's view that he will hit, but the DBacks did take a bit of a gamble with him. Either they were idiots or geniuses. That's why we follow the game, to find out.

For me, I like Cozart as long as he hits lower in the order. I love sure handed, low error shortstops. I like his power. I recognize his flaws. I'm happy with Zack as the Reds' shortstop and delighted this controversial draft pick (remember?) has worked out so well.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

Wouldn't it be funny if Stubbs turns out to be the premier player from here on out in this trade, from amongst Choo, Didi, and Stubbs himself. It's certainly possible.

It may be possible, but I'd assign it a very low probability.

[Roy Tucker]

This is all what makes baseball so much fun.

There isn't any other sport where trades are made and you can get ~1000 posts made on the nuances and assumptions and implications and predictions of trading a AAA shortstop. People get in here and endlessly wrangle over the trade.

But, we're all fans and we love this stuff and we thrive on it. We *like* endlessly wrangling and carrying points to the most extreme reaches of the universe. Sometimes people get too serious or get their noses out of joint, but its because we love this sport. And the fun thing about RedsZone is that it is a time machine where you can go back in time and see all the arguments pro and con before the story all unfolded. Some people end up correct and some people end up way off.

My wife laughs at me because sometimes we're standing in the checkout line at Target or Costco and I'm on my phone reading RZ and muttering under my breath and how some people are full of crap and she asks me "why do you bother so much about that stuff?". And then I go on this big rant about this player or trade and she looks at me like I've got a 3rd eye in my forehead. And then I realize how much of a fan I am and how much the Reds are part of the fabric of my life. Have been since the age of 12 and I think I'm pretty much stuck with it to my grave. But I think, overall, its a pretty good way to pass time and it keeps me out of bars.

Carry on... just me thinking out loud.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

This is all what makes baseball so much fun.

There isn't any other sport where trades are made and you can get ~1000 posts made on the nuances and assumptions and implications and predictions of trading a AAA shortstop. People get in here and endlessly wrangle over the trade.

The truly outstanding part is that we all essentially agree on this trade that we've been vehemently arguing about for days now.

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

This is all what makes baseball so much fun.

There isn't any other sport where trades are made and you can get ~1000 posts made on the nuances and assumptions and implications and predictions of trading a AAA shortstop. People get in here and endlessly wrangle over the trade.

But, we're all fans and we love this stuff and we thrive on it. We *like* endlessly wrangling and carrying points to the most extreme reaches of the universe. Sometimes people get too serious or get their noses out of joint, but its because we love this sport. And the fun thing about RedsZone is that it is a time machine where you can go back in time and see all the arguments pro and con before the story all unfolded. Some people end up correct and some people end up way off.

My wife laughs at me because sometimes we're standing in the checkout line at Target or Costco and I'm on my phone reading RZ and muttering under my breath and how some people are full of crap and she asks me "why do you bother so much about that stuff?". And then I go on this big rant about this player or trade and she looks at me like I've got a 3rd eye in my forehead. And then I realize how much of a fan I am and how much the Reds are part of the fabric of my life. Have been since the age of 12 and I think I'm pretty much stuck with it to my grave. But I think, overall, its a pretty good way to pass time and it keeps me out of bars.

Carry on... just me thinking out loud.

*Love* this post. This happens to me all the time, too. Smart phones have made me into a chain-poster on RZ some days -- as you all may have noticed lately.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by traderumor

It may be possible, but I'd assign it a very low probability.

While it's always possible, Stubbs has actually regressed each year. It's more likely that this may be his last year as a reguler than him out-performing everyone else in the trade.

I'll always remember his two consecutive game winning hits off of Cordero last year.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by jojo

It spins the other way in Australia.

This man won the internets.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by traderumor

I think the point is that dogmatism on ballplayers makes folks look foolish later, then they get offended because their foolishness is linked. Exhibit One--Zach Stewart's Cy Young Award is still a running joke on here.

Nah, I just get annoyed by 3+ years of "IN YOUR FACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" posts. It just comes off as childish to me. There are tons of times I could have said something similar to a whole lot of people around these parts for being wrong. We are all clearly wrong, often, assuming we actually put an opinion out there with any kind of regularity. But I don't. I look at it as the way children act, not adults.

[Scrap Irony]

Let's not get into that discussion again, please.

It's been done-- three times in the past few months.

Suffice it to say, there are posters on each side of that fence, and the more you state your opinion as fact, the more people are going to dog you for it. It has little to do with opinions-- it has lots to do with the way those opinions are presented.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Nah, I just get annoyed by 3+ years of "IN YOUR FACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" posts. It just comes off as childish to me. There are tons of times I could have said something similar to a whole lot of people around these parts for being wrong. We are all clearly wrong, often, assuming we actually put an opinion out there with any kind of regularity. But I don't. I look at it as the way children act, not adults.

I fail to see maturity in someone who makes strong assertions in arenas like prospect predictions, then whines when a track record for those predictions is documented.

[westofyou]

Be sure of three things when it comes to the game.

1. Nobody knows everything
   
2. Everybody can learn something new every day
   
3. The game is bigger than all of us and our opinions on the game

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by traderumor

I fail to see maturity in someone who makes strong assertions in arenas like prospect predictions, then whines when a track record for those predictions is documented.

Whines? Please. I probably have my opinions attacked on this site more than anyone (at least on the baseball side of the forum). There is no whining. I don't go crying to moderators. I usually just respond back with my evidence as to why I have my opinion. And for the record, no track record is brought up. People bring up Stewart. No one brings up how I told everyone that Stubbs had power when hardly anyone believed he could hit 10 home runs. Or that I was about the only person around who believed Mesoraco was still a prospect (and even a decent one) when most everyone else was writing him off as a bust. My track record isn't perfect. No one who deals in sports is going to be. No one who has and posts opinions on hundreds of players a year will.

[Wonderful Monds]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Nah, I just get annoyed by 3+ years of "IN YOUR FACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" posts. It just comes off as childish to me. There are tons of times I could have said something similar to a whole lot of people around these parts for being wrong. We are all clearly wrong, often, assuming we actually put an opinion out there with any kind of regularity. But I don't. I look at it as the way children act, not adults.

You really, *really* can't understand why that happens?