Giancarlo Stanton

[reds1869]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

I honestly think Walt and Bob are looking at Billy as an attendance-boosting novelty with his speed and stolen bases.

I think they also realize someone who can knock the ball over the fence 40 times a year would do plenty to boost attendance, though.

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by reds1869

I think they also realize someone who can knock the ball over the fence 40 times a year would do plenty to boost attendance, though.

That's how I feel.

I'd honestly be torn though. Because one of my gripes is how the Reds always seem to depend on the long ball and don't know how to play small ball, get on base, and make things happen, when they need to.

If Hamilton is the real deal, I really hate to lose him.

I'm mixed on this one.

[mth123]

If Stanton goes, its likely to Texas IMO. Leonys Martin, Martin Perez, Mike Olt and Tanner Scheppers for Mike Stanton and Ricky Nolasco. That would be a win-win for both teams IMO.

If I was the Marlins I wouldn't deal him for Hamilton, Stephenson and Cingrani.

[Scrap Irony]

Stanton was at a 156 wRC+ last season and projects to do just about the same this season. That would rank in the top ten in the major leagues if he has enough ABs. That's Joey Votto territory and enough reason to back the prospect truck up in order to get him.

A Hamilton/ Chapman deal would weaken the pitching staff, but the combination of the two might be enough to convince the Marlins to make the deal, as both look to be top-notch gate attractions.

Imagine, please:
Choo LF
Phillips 2B
Votto 1B
Stanton RF
Bruce CF
Frazier 3B
Cozart SS
Hanigan/ Mesoraco C

Add in Ludwick as the fourth OF/ 1B back-up/ PH/ DH. (In this scenario, he'd play against pretty much all LH in Bruce's spot or Votto's and give Stanton a blow for ten games, Choo for ten, DH for all AL teams-- he'd likely get around 110 games, 400+ ABs.)

That's not just a top of the league batting order, but one of the best of the decade. It would give the Reds four guys inside the top 30 in wRC+ from last season. (That'd be one more than the Angels-- and with less holes.)

[marcshoe]

Hamilton will be fun to watch, but unless he turns into Ricky Henderson, this shouldn't even be a question. Giancarlo Stanton is worth a boxfull of Billy Hamilton's. Yeah, I'd give Hamilton and Aroldis or Hamilton and Stephenson, as loathe as I am to deal either pitcher. There are a handful of special players out there, and they rarely become available at a young age. When they do, you go all in.

[RedsManRick]

As silly as it sounds, I think the signing of Ludwick puts a damper on this speculation. I simply don't see Walt signing him to a two year, $15MM deal and then sending him to the bench. I also don't see him moving Hamilton now that Stubbs is gone.

[hebroncougar]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

As silly as it sounds, I think the signing of Ludwick puts a damper on this speculation. I simply don't see Walt signing him to a two year, $15MM deal and then sending him to the bench. I also don't see him moving Hamilton now that Stubbs is gone.

Did Ludwick get a no trade clause? I'd imagine with that contract, he could be traded rather easily after seeing what guys like Gomes and Ross received. I'd absolutely back the truck up for Stanton, Chapman, Hamilton, whatever it took.

[Kc61]

I think Walt would trade Billy H for Stanton. He wouldn't trade Billy easily, but he'd trade him for Stanton.

But the deal will never happen because the Marlins would want much more.

Walt won't trade Chapman in the deal. He won't trade Latos or Cueto in the deal. He won't trade Bruce or Votto in the deal.

If the Marlins would take Hamilton and Stephenson, or Hamilton and Bailey, I could see a deal. But the Marlins will want more and it won't happen.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Kc61

I think Walt would trade Billy H for Stanton. He wouldn't trade Billy easily, but he'd trade him for Stanton.

But the deal will never happen because the Marlins would want much more.

Walt won't trade Chapman in the deal. He won't trade Latos or Cueto in the deal. He won't trade Bruce or Votto in the deal.

If the Marlins would take Hamilton and Stephenson, or Hamilton and Bailey, I could see a deal. But the Marlins will want more and it won't happen.

The Marlins probably won't take back anyone making any money or with less than 5 years control. If the Reds are serious, they'd probably need to offer Hamilton, Frazier, Stephenson and one of Corcino or Cingrani. The Marlins might insist on both with the Reds taking Ricky Nolasco back.

[marcshoe]

I'd do that deal.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by mth123

The Marlins probably won't take back anyone making any money or with less than 5 years control. If the Reds are serious, they'd probably need to offer Hamilton, Frazier, Stephenson and one of Corcino or Cingrani. The Marlins might insist on both with the Reds taking Ricky Nolasco back.

Originally Posted by marcshoe

I'd do that deal.

So would I. But if the Marlins want prospects, there are probably other organizations with more to offer. Other than Hamilton, I don't see the Reds' prospects being among the top guys.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by marcshoe

I'd do that deal.

Talentwise, I probably would too, but now there are 4 OF and no one to play 3B. This team has a chance to win and even getting stanton, screwing it up by creating holes doesn't make sense.

Making that deal would be like the dog holding the bone that sees his reflection in the water and drops the bone to grab the one he sees. It might be tempting to grab for the talent, but it would make them a lesser team.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

As silly as it sounds, I think the signing of Ludwick puts a damper on this speculation. I simply don't see Walt signing him to a two year, $15MM deal and then sending him to the bench. I also don't see him moving Hamilton now that Stubbs is gone.

I agree. I'd be all for going after him...but I don't see Walt even looking into it.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by mth123

Talentwise, I probably would too, but now there are 4 OF and no one to play 3B. This team has a chance to win and even getting stanton, screwing it up by creating holes doesn't make sense.

Making that deal would be like the dog holding the bone that sees his reflection in the water and drops the bone to grab the one he sees. It might be tempting to grab for the talent, but it would make them a lesser team.

Hannahan could play third against righties. Very able fielder, better defensively than Frazier, and could do ok offensively as a platoon.

Reds would then have to acquire a platoon third sacker to face lefties. (Do I hear Scott Rolen?) Or somebody else.

They would have Ludwick to trade.

If the Reds could get Stanton, with a little work, they would be a much more potent offense, a much better ballclub IMO.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Hannahan could play third against righties. Very able fielder, better defensively than Frazier, and could do ok offensively as a platoon.

Reds would then have to acquire a platoon third sacker to face lefties. (Do I hear Scott Rolen?) Or somebody else.

They would have Ludwick to trade.

If the Reds could get Stanton, with a little work, they would be a much more potent offense, a much better ballclub IMO.

Yep. I get not wanting to trade prospects for him. But please don't make the argument that giving up Frazier for Stanton on the 25 man makes the Reds a lesser team.