Giancarlo Stanton

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

I agree. I'd be all for going after him...but I don't see Walt even looking into it.

That's more how I feel. It's like a pipe dream that won't even start because Walt and Bob will stay the course with how things are now. They see Billy Hamilton as the wonder kid, base-stealing leadoff man, and home grown developed talent. They see a multi-year $7M contract to Ludwick to play LF.

I don't see them thinking outside the box and even entertaining this idea.

Heck, I think Chapman/Hamilton might get it done. You might have to add Cingrani or Corcino or Stephenson, but I think that would get it done. The Fish might want an OFer to fill the void of Stanton, possibly Heisey.

If that deal is made, I re-up Choo on a multi-year deal and the team is set for years to come offensively, and the starting rotation is the same as last year's.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Hannahan could play third against righties. Very able fielder, better defensively than Frazier, and could do ok offensively as a platoon.

Reds would then have to acquire a platoon third sacker to face lefties. (Do I hear Scott Rolen?) Or somebody else.

They would have Ludwick to trade.

If the Reds could get Stanton, with a little work, they would be a much more potent offense, a much better ballclub IMO.

Well, they signed Ludwick as a Free Agent and can't trade him until June (15th I think). Is Stanton enough of an upgrade over one of the three OF to offset the downgrade at 3B? I just don't see it making the Reds that much better. They are already strong in the OF. I'd estimmate a 150 point drop in OPS at 3B from Frazier to a Hannahan/Rolen platoon (.825 vs .675 or so and that assumes Rolen plays and we don't see a Hannahan/Donald platoon which would be even worse). Will Stanton upgrade LF over Ludwick more than that? He could, but it wouldn't be a huge upgrade overall IMO and I wonder if its worth dealing away not only the 3B solution, but next season's CF and the likely replacemet for Arroyo in 2014 as well. I see this deal creating a lot of holes (which includes a probable late inning lefty from this season's team if Cingrani goes). I'm actually not that high on Frazier as a 3B solution, but the Reds really have a hole there without him.

Like you KC, I think other teams have better prospects and the Reds would need to empty the farm and take on some cash to make a deal.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by mth123

Well, they signed Ludwick as a Free Agent and can't trade him until June (15th I think). Is Stanton enough of an upgrade over one of the three OF to offset the downgrade at 3B? I just don't see it making the Reds that much better. They are already strong in the OF. I'd estimmate a 150 point drop in OPS at 3B from Frazier to a Hannahan/Rolen platoon (.825 vs .675 or so and that assumes Rolen plays and we don't see a Hannahan/Donald platoon which would be even worse). Will Stanton upgrade LF over Ludwick more than that? He could, but it wouldn't be a huge upgrade overall IMO and I wonder if its worth dealing away not only the 3B solution, but next season's CF and the likely replacemet for Arroyo in 2014 as well. I see this deal creating a lot of holes (which includes a probable late inning lefty from this season's team if Cingrani goes). I'm actually not that high on Frazier as a 3B solution, but the Reds really have a hole there without him.

Like you KC, I think other teams have better prospects and the Reds would need to empty the farm and take on some cash to make a deal.

I don't see as much downside as you do. And even if there is a downside, I would never pass up the opportunity to get a young star like Stanton for a reasonable package of prospects.

But it's all just hypothetical and there's not one indication the Reds are interested so, you know, whatever.

[AtomicDumpling]

I seriously doubt the Reds have any chance of snagging Giancarlo Stanton, but if there is a possibility no matter how remote, then the Reds should go for it. Players like Stanton don't come around often. The guy had an OPS+ of 158 at the age of 22. He is a sure-fire superstar player. He is under team control for a long time. He would be an absolute dream acquisition for the Reds. If you have to empty the farm system to get him it would be totally worth it.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by mth123

Like you KC, I think other teams have better prospects and the Reds would need to empty the farm and take on some cash to make a deal.

I'd say between Hamilton, Stephenson, Chapman, etc., we could get a deal done. The problem isn't talent, it's the fact that Stanton almost undoubtedly means more to someone else than he does to us. Generally not a good idea to get caught up in a bidding war when that's the case, even for a talent like Stanton.

[wlf WV]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

As silly as it sounds, I think the signing of Ludwick puts a damper on this speculation. I simply don't see Walt signing him to a two year, $15MM deal and then sending him to the bench. I also don't see him moving Hamilton now that Stubbs is gone.

I'm also in this camp ,but he does surprise.I don't think I've seen an offer I wouldn't do.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Superdude

I'd say between Hamilton, Stephenson, Chapman, etc., we could get a deal done. The problem isn't talent, it's the fact that Stanton almost undoubtedly means more to someone else than he does to us. Generally not a good idea to get caught up in a bidding war when that's the case, even for a talent like Stanton.

I can't see the Marlins having any interest in Chapman. After this season, he becomes arb eligible, the remainder of his deal converts to a signing bonus and he'll be in line for a new deal or a huge arb award. The Marlins are dumping guys like that, not trading for them. It will be Cingrani, Corcino, Hamilton, Stephenson and more, I'd guess Frazier, to get him and the Reds would probably need to take Nolasco and his contract to boot.

The Marlins are going to want at least one young cheap guy who can hit in the middle of the order if they deal Stanton, IMO. That is something the Reds are short on. The closest the Reds have is Frazier I'd guess. Other teams have more to offer along those lines.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by mth123

The Marlins are going to want at least one young cheap guy who can hit in the middle of the order if they deal Stanton, IMO.

I don't think filling the hole left by Stanton is even on their mind given the fact that the team is practically in shambles for the foreseeable future. I would imagine they're looking to disperse Stanton's value into a Latos+ type package that can maybe give them a core to build around at some point.

[mth123]

Reds fans won't like this, but a team in a much better position to deal for Stanton is St. Louis. Oscar Taveras along with one of Allen Craig or Matt Adams and one of Shelby Miller or Carlos Martinez and another prospect (say Tyrell Jenkins) would be a much better package without really making any holes on the current Cards roster.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Superdude

I don't think filling the hole left by Stanton is even on their mind given the fact that the team is practically in shambles for the foreseeable future. I would imagine they're looking to disperse Stanton's value into a Latos+ type package that can maybe give them a core to build around at some point.

They need some one who projects as a middle of the order bat for that core to be anything to build around. Maybe Cingrani, Corcino and Stephenson along with Hamilton will give them enough arms to make another deal to get the mid-order bat for that core, but other teams can do it in one deal.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by mth123

They need some one who projects as a middle of the order bat for that core to be anything to build around. Maybe Cingrani, Corcino and Stephenson along wiyh Hamilton will give them enough arms to make another deal to get the mid-order bat for that core, but other teams can do it in one deal.

Maybe true. Either way, there's bound to be plenty of teams scratching and clawing to get him if he's a available. I can't imagine our interest being anything beyond passive curiosity.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

That's more how I feel. It's like a pipe dream that won't even start because Walt and Bob will stay the course with how things are now. They see Billy Hamilton as the wonder kid, base-stealing leadoff man, and home grown developed talent. They see a multi-year $7M contract to Ludwick to play LF.

I don't see them thinking outside the box and even entertaining this idea.
.

I'm all for "win now", but I think we're at the point where it just doesn't make sense to sell the farm for Stanton.. Makes Ludwick an expensive bench player, trains the talent pool long term, and as myth said, trading Frasier would be a potential catastrophe.
We've got to figure that the Reds are prety close to the top of their budget now.. in fact, we're probably not going to get an established second LH out of the pen now.. will probably be a reclamation project.

Stanton is awesome, but it doesn't make sense at this point (assuming the Marlins aren't giving him away)

[Scrap Irony]

Originally Posted by mth123

Reds fans won't like this, but a team in a much better position to deal for Stanton is St. Louis. Oscar Taveras along with one of Allen Craig or Matt Adams and one of Shelby Miller or Carlos Martinez and another prospect (say Tyrell Jenkins) would be a much better package without really making any holes on the current Cards roster.

Interesting.

An Oscar Taveras/ Allen Craig/ Shelby Miller deal is massive. The Marlins would likely insist on Carlos Martinez and Trevor Rosenthal as well, while shuffling off Ricky Nolasco. (At least I would, were I the GM.)

That'd give the Marlins a semblance of a lineup to look forward to in a couple of years while also keeping seats warm on the big league team.

A Marisnick/ Taveras/ Yelich OF could be a joy to watch in two or three years. Fast, three CF defensively with power and serious tools. (And, if you're not a believer in Marisnick, there are a bunch of others in that system; they have a ton of interesting OFers and LHP.) Add Craig as a 1B slugger and Dietrich as a Dan Uggla clone at 2B, and I could see Miami making a run in a couple of years with a lineup of:
Marisinick CF
Yelich RF
Taveras LF
Craig 1B
Dietrich 2B
Brantly C
Hechaverria SS

A possible rotation of Jacob Turner, Miller, Martinez, Jose Fernandez, and Eovaldi or Nicolino sure could be tough. Add in a slew of high upside prospects and Rosenthal as the back end of the bullpen, and you've got enough for a team to consider moving a talent like Stanton.

Meanwhile, St. Louis would run the following lineup out there:
Furcal SS
Beltran CF
Holliday LF
Stanton RF
Molina C
Carpenter 1B
Freese 3B
Descalo 2B

Studly, that. Better than the proposed Cincinnati lineup, IMO.

And their rotation would likely be:
Wainwright
Carpenter
Lynn
Nolasco
Garcia

With Jake Westbrook in tow as erstwhile sixth starter (and Joe Kelly behind him), you've got some serious arms there as well.

The pen is still a work in progress, but, yeah, that deal makes a lot of sense for both teams.

Nice job, mth.

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

I'm all for "win now", but I think we're at the point where it just doesn't make sense to sell the farm for Stanton.. Makes Ludwick an expensive bench player, trains the talent pool long term, and as myth said, trading Frasier would be a potential catastrophe.
We've got to figure that the Reds are prety close to the top of their budget now.. in fact, we're probably not going to get an established second LH out of the pen now.. will probably be a reclamation project.

Stanton is awesome, but it doesn't make sense at this point (assuming the Marlins aren't giving him away)

I agree the idea of acquiring Stanton is highly unlikely and runs the potential of destroying the Reds farm system.

But then again, nobody knows what it would take. Chapman, Hamilton, Stephenson for Stanton? I'd do that in a heartbeat. Most other proposals, I'd pass, and stay the course.

[traderumor]

I seriously doubt that the Reds are having one serious conversation on Stanton. They have a team that projects as a 95+ win team in the house now. It would be like blowing up their yacht, which they have invested millions in to get it where it is, because it only had a HD flat screen TV, then paying $50M for a new yacht because it had a 3D flat screen TV.

I understand why any fan would want Stanton on their team. It just is so unrealistic that even trying to put names to a deal seems like so much silliness.