2013 Bengals Discussion

[5TimeWSChamps]

I'd draft Eifert out of ND, adn move to a 2 TE system, if they aren't going to invest in any quality WR's

[joshua]

We have a very young team that could use some veteran leadership on offense. I wonder if Mikey boy will use some of that cap space to get a veteran offensive playmaker.

Probably not

[KoryMac5]

That cap space will start getting smaller and smaller when you start resigning guys like AJ Green and Geno Atkins.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by joshua

We have a very young team that could use some veteran leadership on offense. I wonder if Mikey boy will use some of that cap space to get a veteran offensive playmaker.

Probably not

The year to do that was last year with FA WR like V.Jackson, P.Garcon, and M.Colston on the market. I'd suppose they could make a run at a Mike Wallace, Dwayne Bowe or a Danny Amendola if they don't re-sign with their respective teams, although I doubt Mikeyboy will even do that.

[Benihana]

My offseason plan:

RE-SIGN
Andre Smith
Michael Johnson

EXTEND
Geno Atkins
AJ Green

WAIVE GOODBYE
Robert Geathers
Rey Maulaluga
Manny Lawson
Nate Clements
Brandon Tate

2013 IS MAKE OR BREAK
Andy Dalton
Jermaine Gresham
Dre Kirkpatrick (better figure out a way to get on the field if he wants to avoid the bust label)

FREE AGENTS
As per the above post, I'd like to see them sign one of Mike Wallace, Dwayne Bowe, or Danny Amendola

DRAFT
The first four picks (first three rounds) need to focus on getting upgrades at LB, SS, and RB. WR also especially if they don't sign one of the veteran FA listed above. The RB they can likely get in the third round, but LB, SS, and WR they'll need to address in the first two (and probably WR first if they don't sign a big FA).
Names to watch/target:

Keenan Allen WR Cal
Cordarelle Patterson WR Tennessee
Justin Hunter WR Tennessee
Terrance Williams WR Baylor
Alec Ogletree MLB Georgia
Kenny Vaccaro S Texas
Eric Reid S LSU

I don't mind if Jay Gruden leaves. He is better than Bratkowski, but league average at best. The offense really regressed down the stretch. I do mind if Mike Zimmer leaves- he is the best coach this team has.

[Benihana]

So this means the Bengals have the 21st or 22nd pick (the Vikings have the other), correct?

[Stray]

I'm fine with Sanu and Green being our 1 and 2 WRs. Hawkins in the slot and Marvin Jones can move down the depth chart.

Agree about our LBs getting exposed. They don't have the speed to cover RBs and TEs man to man. It's been a weakness for a long time.

I thought Green-Ellis was much better than expected this year. What I'd love to have is a change of pace back that has more speed and pass catching ability. Not real sure what Leonard and Peerman really give us.

Another thing is I'd be a little weary about giving Andre Smith a long term contract. He was good this year, but he's still the guy that has almost always shown up overweight. I mean the guy has broken bones in his feet from being so out of shape. I don't think it's a coincidence that we got the best out of him in a contract year.

No, 10-7 is 10-7. Last year, the Bengals beat 0 playoff teams. This year, they beat 1.

I just think that's a simplistic way of looking at it. If you're just judging how good a team is by where they stand in the standings then you're right. This year's team got hit with a ton of preseason injuries and it took a while for guys to get healthy. Our defense was a mess in the first part of the year because of that. 7-1 down the stretch to just barely get in the playoffs is something last year's team could have never done. I'm not saying we're miles better, but I still think the ship is pointing in the right direction.

I'm not a big Marvin fan but for those saying he can't win any big games I'd point out that the last half of our regular season were big games.

Oh and we actually beat two playoff teams this year, but it may as well be one since week 17 was a preseason game.

[hebroncougar]

Meh, about what I expected. But beating NYG, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Washington, Oakland (because of Palmer), and SD (because I hate Phillip Rivers) was gratifying. I thought the coaches got quite a bit out of the roster they had. Upgrades at MLB, S, and a threat outside of Green on offense are a must if they want to be a playoff team and then some next year. Gresham is way, way overrated in my book. When I watch him play, he looks like he's trying to catch with flippers instead of hands.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Stray

I'm fine with Sanu and Green being our 1 and 2 WRs. Hawkins in the slot and Marvin Jones can move down the depth chart.

Then be fine with a below average offense. Dalton needs all the help he can get, and Gresham and the WR other than AJ don't equate to an above average #2.

Agree about our LBs getting exposed. They don't have the speed to cover RBs and TEs man to man. It's been a weakness for a long time.

I thought Green-Ellis was much better than expected this year. What I'd love to have is a change of pace back that has more speed and pass catching ability. Not real sure what Leonard and Peerman really give us.

Agreed.

Another thing is I'd be a little weary about giving Andre Smith a long term contract. He was good this year, but he's still the guy that has almost always shown up overweight. I mean the guy has broken bones in his feet from being so out of shape. I don't think it's a coincidence that we got the best out of him in a contract year.

Agreed on Smith's work ethic, but unfortunately we don't really have a choice. Let Smith walk and the Bengals will have to spend their first round pick on a Tackle which will ignore a true need elsewhere (WR, LB, SS) much like they had to with Kirkpatrick this year after inexplicably letting Joseph walk. That was a great move.

I just think that's a simplistic way of looking at it. If you're just judging how good a team is by where they stand in the standings then you're right. This year's team got hit with a ton of preseason injuries and it took a while for guys to get healthy. Our defense was a mess in the first part of the year because of that. 7-1 down the stretch to just barely get in the playoffs is something last year's team could have never done. I'm not saying we're miles better, but I still think the ship is pointing in the right direction.

I'm not a big Marvin fan but for those saying he can't win any big games I'd point out that the last half of our regular season were big games.

Oh and we actually beat two playoff teams this year, but it may as well be one since week 17 was a preseason game.

The Steelers regular season game this year was the first big game Marvin has EVER won. Maybe the Steelers game toward the end of the '05 regular season. So that makes him like 2-20 in big games, including 0-4 in playoff games - a streak I think may continue as long as he is the Head Coach. While he may be a decent motivator and personnel guy, he is arguably the worst game coach in the NFL. X's and O's, gameplans, adjustments, clock management and challenges - he gets an F- in all of the above, almost every time.

If you're happy with a team that can make the playoffs 30-40% of the time (and compared to Bengals history that is nothing to sneeze at) but will never win a playoff game let alone a Super Bowl, Marvin is the right guy for the job.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by hebroncougar

Meh, about what I expected. But beating NYG, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Washington, Oakland (because of Palmer), and SD (because I hate Phillip Rivers) was gratifying. I thought the coaches got quite a bit out of the roster they had. Upgrades at MLB, S, and a threat outside of Green on offense are a must if they want to be a playoff team and then some next year. Gresham is way, way overrated in my book. When I watch him play, he looks like he's trying to catch with flippers instead of hands.

Agreed on all fronts.

Gresham may have been the worst Bengals first round pick since Akili Smith.* Hopefully Kirkpatrick doesn't enter that conversation.


*Especially when you consider he was the first TE taken in a draft that included Jimmy Graham, Rob Gronkowski, and Aaron Hernandez.

[RiverRat13]

Originally Posted by Benihana

Agreed on all fronts.

Gresham may have been the worst Bengals first round pick since Akili Smith.* Hopefully Kirkpatrick doesn't enter that conversation.


*Especially when you consider he was the first TE taken in a draft that included Jimmy Graham, Rob Gronkowski, and Aaron Hernandez.

Gresham is certainly a disappointment, but I think it is a bit of revisionist history to bring up Graham and Hernandez. I remember early in the draft Hernandez was thought to be the best receiving TE in that class but he had a failed drug test(s) at Florida. That is why he fell to the fourth round. Jimmy Graham was a basketball player at Miami and had a whopping one year of football in his life under his belt going into the draft. I don't think it is really fair to knock the Bengals for taking Gresham over either of those two, especially when every other team would have done the same.

[Stray]

Then be fine with a below average offense. Dalton needs all the help he can get, and Gresham and the WR other than AJ don't equate to an above average #2.

Sanu compliments Green very well though. The physical possession receiver that can work the middle of the field. When we started getting him worked into our offense we were putting up a lot of points and Dalton looked better than he ever has. I agree we need to get Dalton more help, but I just think we already have the help on IR.

Agreed on Smith's work ethic, but unfortunately we don't really have a choice. Let Smith walk and the Bengals will have to spend their first round pick on a Tackle which will ignore a true need elsewhere (WR, LB, SS) much like they had to with Kirkpatrick this year after inexplicably letting Joseph walk. That was a great move.

Not sure what the price tag would look like this offseason, but there's always the option to franchise tag him to make him play two straight contract years. If he does then I'd be all in with a long term contract. We give him one this offseason and it wouldn't surprise me if he showed up to camp 70 pounds overweight.

The Steelers regular season game this year was the first big game Marvin has EVER won. Maybe the Steelers game toward the end of the '05 regular season. So that makes him like 2-20 in big games, including 0-4 in playoff games - a streak I think may continue as long as he is the Head Coach. While he may be a decent motivator and personnel guy, he is arguably the worst game coach in the NFL. X's and O's, gameplans, adjustments, clock management and challenges - he gets an F- in all of the above, almost every time.

If you're happy with a team that can make the playoffs 30-40% of the time (and compared to Bengals history that is nothing to sneeze at) but will never win a playoff game let alone a Super Bowl, Marvin is the right guy for the job.

The Carson era doesn't mean anything anymore to me. I want to see improvements. When we blew it up and went with Dalton and Green last year we had to accept that the team would go through a growing process. The playoffs last year was a surprise. My only question on Marvin is if he has the ship pointed in the right direction, and if it has stalled. I believe we're headed up and not stopped yet.

We were a missed throw away from potentially winning our first playoff game in a million years. There have been games where I think Marvin was in over his head, but I didn't think yesterday was one of them. We got beat by a team that's better than we are right now.

I'm not saying we should stand still because I know the team has to improve to take the next step...Marvin just isn't the problem imo.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Stray

I'm fine with Sanu and Green being our 1 and 2 WRs. Hawkins in the slot and Marvin Jones can move down the depth chart.

Agree about our LBs getting exposed. They don't have the speed to cover RBs and TEs man to man. It's been a weakness for a long time.

I thought Green-Ellis was much better than expected this year. What I'd love to have is a change of pace back that has more speed and pass catching ability. Not real sure what Leonard and Peerman really give us.

Another thing is I'd be a little weary about giving Andre Smith a long term contract. He was good this year, but he's still the guy that has almost always shown up overweight. I mean the guy has broken bones in his feet from being so out of shape. I don't think it's a coincidence that we got the best out of him in a contract year.



I just think that's a simplistic way of looking at it. If you're just judging how good a team is by where they stand in the standings then you're right. This year's team got hit with a ton of preseason injuries and it took a while for guys to get healthy. Our defense was a mess in the first part of the year because of that. 7-1 down the stretch to just barely get in the playoffs is something last year's team could have never done. I'm not saying we're miles better, but I still think the ship is pointing in the right direction.

I'm not a big Marvin fan but for those saying he can't win any big games I'd point out that the last half of our regular season were big games.

Oh and we actually beat two playoff teams this year, but it may as well be one since week 17 was a preseason game.

Sanu was a huge loss. We've been spoiled with AJ. The truth is it's rare for rookie WRs to have much impact in the NFL. Look at TJ and Chad. Very pedestrian rookie campaigns. I'm fine with trying to improve this position but it's not a priority. Much more important is getting another LB or two and a RB who can catch and make people miss. The difference in the game yesterday was RB-TE vs LB dynamic. Say what you want about Gresham but he would have had a great day if he were as wide open as Owen Daniels was. Don't you think Dalton's day would have been different if he had a back like Foster to dump the ball off to especially if he could run for 20 yds before getting touched? Our ability to cover TEs and RBs in the passing game killed us and I'd like to hear from Marvin and Zim as to how that happened. That led to sustained drives for Hou and took away opportunities for our meager offense to get the ball.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by hebroncougar

Meh, about what I expected. But beating NYG, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Washington, Oakland (because of Palmer), and SD (because I hate Phillip Rivers) was gratifying. I thought the coaches got quite a bit out of the roster they had. Upgrades at MLB, S, and a threat outside of Green on offense are a must if they want to be a playoff team and then some next year. Gresham is way, way overrated in my book. When I watch him play, he looks like he's trying to catch with flippers instead of hands.

Sanu is a big athletic receiver while Marvin is a speedster. Both are 6'2". What more do you want at WR? What the WRs need is a home run threat at RB. WE need to find a speed guy who can catch the ball out of the backfield and make people miss. This will take the pressure off guys like Jones and Gresham. Green will always be the #1 priority of any D coordinator. I've never seen a west coast offense work without a dump off option at RB

[KoryMac5]

You aren't going to win playoff games with the Lawfirm at RB. You need someone with burst that can break one loose. A RB in the first three rounds would be nice, but this yr is a bit weaker than last. I really think the Bengals are set at WR, with Jones and Sanu.

The other thing to address is how awful the line can be, love the run blocking but this line can't pass protect worth a squat. If there is a Center in this draft worth spending a pick on I would look that way.