2013 Bengals Discussion

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Joseph

Gresham is the best TE the Bengals have had since what, Rodney Holman? Doesn't make him great though.

A lot of us sucking at the teet of hope right now for this franchise, but honestly the milks pretty bitter and I'm not sure I've got another season in me.

Tony McGee was better than Gresham. Holman was too.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Joseph

Gresham is the best TE the Bengals have had since what, Rodney Holman? Doesn't make him great though.

A lot of us sucking at the teet of hope right now for this franchise, but honestly the milks pretty bitter and I'm not sure I've got another season in me.

Really? We've had the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years. Given the history of this franchise why would you bail now?Sure, they're not Super Bowl material but they were clearly the 6th best team in the conference. They won that last WC spot with 2 games to spare. By NFL terms they ran away with that last playoff spot. We're now a playoff contender year in and year out.

[Reds Freak]

Originally Posted by WVRed

The Patriots also didn't make the Law Firm the focal point either of their offense either. Their offense is geared around the pass 75% of the time, and Stevan Ridley made some plays later on in the season.

The Bengals hardly make BJGE the focal point of the offense. He had what? 10 touches Saturday? He average over 5 a carry so he probably should have had more. But he was never a focal point of the offense.

[cincrazy]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Really? We've had the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years. Given the history of this franchise why would you bail now?Sure, they're not Super Bowl material but they were clearly the 6th best team in the conference. They won that last WC spot with 2 games to spare. By NFL terms they ran away with that last playoff spot. We're now a playoff contender year in and year out.

Disagree. Mike Brown has done nothing to prove he can take this franchise any further than it's gone. What about when AJ, Atkins, and others reach free agency? Will we keep them? I'm not convinced. I don't trust him. The Bears fired Lovie Smith, who was 81-63 with a Super Bowl appearance. A much better resume than Marvin. But Mike would never think about firing after a year like this, or even a 6-10 7-9 year. Average is good enough for him. This franchise has reached its ceiling. I'd love to be wrong. But I don't see it.

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by cincrazy

Disagree. Mike Brown has done nothing to prove he can take this franchise any further than it's gone. What about when AJ, Atkins, and others reach free agency? Will we keep them? I'm not convinced. I don't trust him. The Bears fired Lovie Smith, who was 81-63 with a Super Bowl appearance. A much better resume than Marvin. But Mike would never think about firing after a year like this, or even a 6-10 7-9 year. Average is good enough for him. This franchise has reached its ceiling. I'd love to be wrong. But I don't see it.

The Bears FO has invested in the offense, and that side of the ball is bad. Their offensive line is a mess, and the offense was stagnant. Maybe the owner didn't like the answers anymore? How many different coordinators does he have to bring in? Whose fault is the failure of the offensive line? What does the FO see?

[WMR]

I'm guessing the Bengals organization has an extremely complicated, closely guarded formula that tells Mikey the absolute least he can spend on his organization without seeing a decrease in the size of the checks he gets to cash.

Brown could legitimately not care less about winning.

I wonder if his daughter has been conditioned to think the same way or if she sees what a buffoon her dad is and has silently resolved to do better when the team passes to her?

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by cincrazy

Disagree. Mike Brown has done nothing to prove he can take this franchise any further than it's gone. What about when AJ, Atkins, and others reach free agency? Will we keep them? I'm not convinced. I don't trust him. The Bears fired Lovie Smith, who was 81-63 with a Super Bowl appearance. A much better resume than Marvin. But Mike would never think about firing after a year like this, or even a 6-10 7-9 year. Average is good enough for him. This franchise has reached its ceiling. I'd love to be wrong. But I don't see it.

We all know Mike Brown sucks. That's been a constant and it ain't changin'. If he was the issue then you might as well have given up on them 20 yrs ago and saved yourself the angst. I understand what MB is so I don't give my heart to this team and I rarely give them my money for the reasons you listed. But I still watch them on TV, follow them and cheer them on.

[Redhook]

Originally Posted by WMR

I wonder if his daughter has been conditioned to think the same way or if she sees what a buffoon her dad is and has silently resolved to do better when the team passes to her?

I'm guessing she's conditioned, but it can't be worse with her. It's reached rock bottom a few times. Like you said, he could care less about winning AND he believes he knows football. I believe she may be trained to be cheap like him, but I don't think she'd be foolish enough to think she knows how to be a GM. I think a GM will be hired, Marvin(?), when he goes at the bare minimum.

[Benihana]

I have it on good authority that Mike Brown thinks 8-8 is the optimal record from an ownership perspective. Helps keep interest but you don't have to go the extra mile. That's what we're dealing with folks. The franchise has reached its ceiling with Mike and Marvin at the helm, and unfortunately I don't think either one is going anywhere anytime soon.

So if we can enjoy playoff appearances and the occasional divisional crown, great. But expecting more you're likely to be very disappointed under this regime.

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

We all know Mike Brown sucks. That's been a constant and it ain't changin'. If he was the issue then you might as well have given up on them 20 yrs ago and saved yourself the angst. I understand what MB is so I don't give my heart to this team and I rarely give them my money for the reasons you listed. But I still watch them on TV, follow them and cheer them on.

+1, I did break down and buy my kids AJ Green jerseys. The rest of my Bengals gear comes from the clearance rack.

[Stray]

Dalton - 25 years old
Green - 24 years old
Geno - 24 years old
Burfict - 22 years old

Those are the two most important players on each side of the ball imo. You could make a strong case for Whit who isn't getting any younger, but the point is that our team is incredibly young. To even talk about our ceiling is crazy. I hope we haven't topped out, but there's really no reason to believe we have.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Stray

Dalton - 25 years old
Green - 24 years old
Geno - 24 years old
Burfict - 22 years old

Those are the two most important players on each side of the ball imo. You could make a strong case for Whit who isn't getting any younger, but the point is that our team is incredibly young. To even talk about our ceiling is crazy. I hope we haven't topped out, but there's really no reason to believe we have.

Topped out with Mike and Marvin in charge. Marvin is the worst game coach this franchise has had since Dave Shula. I don't see a way he'll ever win a playoff game against a competent coach.

The jury is still very much out on Dalton. The other three you name are obviously undoubtedly the future of the franchise.*

Whitworth wasn't even the best offensive lineman this year. While still above average, he is hardly the best player on the team. Taking Dalton out of the equation (because he is such a wildcard - he could be #3 or off the list entirely by this time next year,) I'd probably rank the assets like this:

1. Geno Atkins
(tie) AJ Green
3. Vontaze Burfict
4. Kevin Zeitler
5. Hippo Smith
6. Andrew Whitworth
7. Leon Hall
8. Carlos Dunlap
9. Michael Johnson
10. Domata Peko

Almost everyone else is replaceable. Possible exception is Reggie Nelson and maybe even Josh Hall (who I'd keep next year over Nugent).


*so long as Burfict doesn't go all Odell Thurman

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Stray

Dalton - 25 years old
Green - 24 years old
Geno - 24 years old
Burfict - 22 years old

Those are the two most important players on each side of the ball imo. You could make a strong case for Whit who isn't getting any younger, but the point is that our team is incredibly young. To even talk about our ceiling is crazy. I hope we haven't topped out, but there's really no reason to believe we have.

I don't care how young or old Dalton is, he doesn't have it in him to be a winner. He isn't the guy to carry you. He is a guy who can not hurt you. He doesn't have the arm to be the man to carry a team. He is a solid quarterback. He won't be any more than that.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I don't care how young or old Dalton is, he doesn't have it in him to be a winner. He isn't the guy to carry you. He is a guy who can not hurt you. He doesn't have the arm to be the man to carry a team. He is a solid quarterback. He won't be any more than that.

I'm afraid this is right. I remember seeing a picture of Dalton straight on through the facemask, and it looked just like Jon Kitna. I'm afraid that's what I see in Dalton. A slightly better version of Jon Kitna.

He's generally smart, (but still prone to huge mind numbing blunders.)
But he's a little bit undersized, not particularly mobile, and doesn't have very good pocket awareness so a lot of balls are going to get batted down at the line of scrimmage.

If he's surrounded by playmakers, he can facilitate well. But he doesn't strike me as someone who's going to make anyone look better than they are.

[Tony Cloninger]

Originally Posted by blumj

I don't get to watch many Bengals games, but, if BJGE is the focal point of the their offense, what the heck are they thinking? I mean, they have a talented young QB, one of the best WRs in the game, a pretty good TE, and I'm sure plenty of players I don't know about, and the focal point of their offense is primarily a very good short yardage RB?

Gresham is below average TE...who has a big game here and there....But mainly disappears...drops passes and cannot block very well at all.
Dalton...as has been said...is an average QB. More a caretaker....But just better than a Dilfer, less mistake prone than Flacco....but not enough arm and pocket awareness or rollout and passing ability.
The Law Firm and AJ Green carried this offense most of the year.