No one to the hall this year

[George Anderson]

Originally Posted by M2

This election was criminal.

Biggio should have been an easy pick. Piazza's clearly getting dinked for roids suspicion. Schilling is getting penalized because the voters are apparently still fascinated with the most meaningless stat out there - pitcher wins.

.

Biggio and Piazza will eventually get in most likely next year. The HOF voters just for whatever reason are kinda weird about electing a player that is not seen as one the elites of the game ( Bench, Mays, Aaron etc.) on the first ballot. It may be wrong but thats just the way it is.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by George Anderson

Thomas will get in one day no doubt but my gut tells me that because he was predominately a DH, the voters will hold it against him the first time around.

I understand that sentiment. I'm leaning towards him getting in, he certainly would on my ballot.

[cumberlandreds]

It's a shame for Jack Morris. I really think he belongs. Only one more year left for him. With Maddux and Glavine up next year I doubt he gets in now. I saw that Bonds and Clemons were 8th and 9th. More than I thought they would get. Leads me to think they will eventually get in.

[kaldaniels]

Guys with the most HR and most hits on the outside of Cooperstown looking in.

(Or to be more accurate sitting in an autograph booth)

[RichRed]

I don't think Morris belongs. Career ERA of 3.90 and ERA+ of 105. Very good but not great. I think that if it weren't for his macho 1984 and 1991 postseason performances, he wouldn't even be in the conversation.

[RedFanAlways1966]

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

Baseball players get what they deserve here.

To leave everybody guessing as to who was and who wasn't....it's their own fault.

It's not our responsibility to pick through the garbage.

I agree. Perhaps the Union (who did all it could to avoid testing) and their teams (do not insult my intelligence by claiming they knew nothing) can put them in the "we got you and you got us very-very rich Hall of Fame".

You get what you deserve. Make your bed and LIE in it.

[RedFanAlways1966]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

Guys with the most HR and most hits on the outside of Cooperstown looking in.

(Or to be more accurate sitting in an autograph booth)

At least neither one is sitting in jail. MLB should be proud of them.

[marcshoe]

Don't know about Maddux and Glavine being above suspicion. Remember the "Chicks dig the longball" bit?

Makes as much sense as keeping some of these guys out.

[AtomicDumpling]

If I had a vote for the HOF I would not have voted for any of the steroids users this year. I would make them wait a few years before voting for them. It lets them know that they tainted their reputations severely by cheating and we all know they did it. But in the end they should be inducted. A Hall of Fame without some of the game's most famous and most productive players in history is not much of a Hall of Fame. It cheats the fans.

[oneupper]

Ken Burns is happy with the result.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi...9555--mlb.html

[vaticanplum]

Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966

I agree. Perhaps the Union (who did all it could to avoid testing) and their teams (do not insult my intelligence by claiming they knew nothing) can put them in the "we got you and you got us very-very rich Hall of Fame".

You get what you deserve. Make your bed and LIE in it.

Except the very writers who built these players up when they knew they were juicing, because it behooved them to do so at the time, are now the ones taking a stance against them on moral grounds. And once again, they're doing so now because it appeases the current trend of public opinion and serves their own careers well.

Illegal? Maybe not. But it certainly doesn't sit well with me from a moral standpoint.

The job of a team owner is to run a profitable enterprise. The job of a union is to protect its members. The job of a journalist is to expose the truth. All are beholden to their own consciences in terms of where and how their value systems affect the way they do their job; I don't know what those value systems are, so I can't say who failed in that. But the way I see it, only one of those groups of people failed at the job.

[RedsManRick]

That the sport as a whole and the writers in particular allowed and in fact enabled and celebrated the historical accomplishments Bonds, Clements et al and now wants to get on its collective high horse and ignore those accomplishments is a massive shame -- especially when you consider that they won't apply the very same standards to the rest of the sport's history.

A Hall of Fame that celebrates the above average but not even close to historically impressive careers of Goose Gossage, Bill Mazeroski, Phil Rizzuto, Jim Rice and Bruce Sutter but doesn't include Barry Bonds and Roger Clements (let alone Tim Raines, Mike Piazza and Jeff Bagwell) simply cannot honestly claim to be the premier and definitive history museum of the sport of baseball.

I'm glad that the writers of the BBWAA are keen on celebrating every pretty good player of their formative era regardless of it's own significant blemishes, but my formative era occurred too and getting all high and mighty now is hypocritical at best and more practically destructive to the health of the game through it's disrespect and isolation of an entire generation of fans.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by cumberlandreds

It's a shame for Jack Morris. I really think he belongs.

Morris isn't a hall of famer, or close to it. His career ERA+ is 105. That is barely above average. The best he ever had was a 133.

By Reds standards, a 105 ERA+ was far worse than any Reds starter this year (113 was the worst - Arroyo). The 133 for his career best was a little worse than what Sam LeCure did this season.

Morris was an above-average starter in his prime, but I don't think he was ever an elite pitcher in his time. 1979 was the only time he was ever in the Top 5 in the American League in ERA+.

[TRF]

Piazza is also getting dinged for that weenie arm of his, the fact that he was a below average catcher defensively and had horrible hair.

Was he a PED user? i know what i think, but i also know i don't care. He had to compete against pitchers using PED's, peers using them and if he was a user, they didn't help that much towards the end of his career.

I kinda like Biggio. maybe next year.

I've always waffled on the first ballot HOF argument. I agree with the notion of either you are or you aren't, but at the same time 1st ballot always seemed reserved for the elite of the elite. KGJ in my mind is a 1st ballot guy. Biggio is not. But i think he gets in. 3000 hit will do that for a guy not named Palmeiro.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by oneupper

Ken Burns is happy with the result.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi...9555--mlb.html

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...r-for-a-while/

The Hollywood Reporter: Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds and Mike Piazza are all on the Baseball Hall of Fame ballot. Would you vote for them?

Ken Burns: No.

THR: Ever?

Ken Burns: I want them to suffer for a while … We know some pitchers extended their playing careers, we know some people hit the ball farther, but nobody hit .406, nobody had a 56-game hitting streak, no pitcher won 30 games, no pitcher won 35 games, no pitcher won 25 games. Maybe that helps you make it less onerous, but at the same time, those motherf—ers should suffer for a while.