No one to the hall this year

[George Anderson]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Any system that excludes Mike Piazza from the Hall of Fame is a joke. He is not a proven PED user to my knowledge and his performance on the field absolutely is Hall of Fame caliber.

Now we have baseball writers as judge, jury, and executioner based on public speculation about steroid use.

I just saw a panel on ESPN say the "system worked." Not it didn't.

Piazza is worthy of induction but IMO he falls short of being an elite of the elites that the writers want for a first balloter.

[Tom Servo]

I, for one, am just not a big fan of 'guilty until proven innocent'. If you failed a test like Rafael Palmiero, that's a big strike against you. Otherwise, just vote based on what is known.

[westofyou]

From a friend... less votes than Lee Smith

Curt Schilling
Roger Clemens
Barry Bonds
Edgar Martinez
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
Dale Murphy
Mark McGwire
Don Mattingly
Sammy Sosa
Rafael Palmeiro
Bernie Williams
Kenny Lofton

PLUS

Someone voted for Aaron Sele.

[klw]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/88...l-fame-writers

Player	       Votes	 Pct
Craig Biggio	388	68.2
Jack Morris	385	67.7
Jeff Bagwell	339	59.6
Mike Piazza	329	57.8
Tim Raines	297	52.2
Lee Smith	272	47.8
Curt Schilling	221	38.8
Roger Clemens	214	37.6
Barry Bonds	206	36.2
Edgar Martinez	204	35.9
Alan Trammell	191	33.6
Larry Walker	123	21.6
Fred McGriff	118	20.7
Dale Murphy	106	18.6
Mark McGwire	96	16.9
Don Mattingly	75	13.2
Sammy Sosa	71	12.5
Rafael Palmeiro	50	8.8

Others receiving votes: Bernie Williams, 19; Kenny Lofton, 18; Sandy Alomar Jr., 16; Julio Franco, 6; David Wells, 5; Steve Finley, 4; Shawn Green, 2; Aaron Sele, 1.

No votes: Jeff Cirillo
Royce Clayton
Jeff Conine
Roberto Hernandez
Ryan Klesko
Jose Mesa
Reggie Sanders
Mike Stanton
Todd Walker
Rondell White
Woody Williams

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

Barry Bonds hit 70 plus homers in a single season and we're here talking about spitballs.

Cyclone and I used to go round about this: spitballs were effective in their era because they used to play the entire game with essentially the same ball. The thing was so dark you couldn't see it. That's why it was hard to hit.

Gaylor Perry wasn't playing with a dark ball. Everytime one was hit foul or an umpire decided to put a new one in play, he would have had to start all over scuffing it.

To compare a spitball to drugs ingested to make you physically stronger to the tune of what we saw....come on.

Yet it was one of the most popular pitches in the 70's and 80's

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Someone voted for Aaron Sele.

Take away his/her voting privilege.

[Dom Heffner]

WOY, you know I love ya man, but you are so off here it's sad.

I always thought that one purpose behind being a historian was to learn from the past, not use the past to excuse future mistakes.

That's great that Chainsaw Mathis cheated a hundred years ago.

The gentlemen we are talking about used drugs a century advanced to get what I think we could argue were some pretty darn good results.

And they didnt tell anybody. If it's okay for them to do it because Night Train Wilkins injected monkey snot into his buttocks in 1871, then they should have come out and said that.

But they didn't. So for me, the hall vote today is a little justice. If you're going to go do something in the dark of night and then argue that the powers that be really didn't know what happened so we have to let you in...I mean, come on.

And for the rest of the board who wishes to bring up Gaylord Perry and Ty Cobb and amphetamines here's what I tell you:

This is today. We don't have to let someone into the hall today just because there are other people in there you don't like.

Gaylord Perry is not an excuse to do steroids.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

Barry Bonds hit 70 plus homers in a single season and we're here talking about spitballs.

Cyclone and I used to go round about this: spitballs were effective in their era because they used to play the entire game with essentially the same ball. The thing was so dark you couldn't see it. That's why it was hard to hit.

Gaylor Perry wasn't playing with a dark ball. Everytime one was hit foul or an umpire decided to put a new one in play, he would have had to start all over scuffing it.

To compare a spitball to drugs ingested to make you physically stronger to the tune of what we saw....come on.

The point of a PED is to enhance your natural talent. the point of doctoring a baseball is to enhance your natural ability to throw said baseball.

You either affect the outcome chemically inside your body or chemically outside it. Doesn't matter to me, as both cheated.

The cop out i hate is when a player says a substance was not banned, even if having it was illegal. That is the height of hypocrisy.

In the 70's you couldn't throw a ball in a MLB locker room without hitting a player on greenies. And for all those guys clamoring for Rose to be in there, remember, amphetamines are illegal. And he took a lot of them.

Originally Posted by westofyou

PLUS

Someone voted for Aaron Sele.

Who? his brother or his mom?

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

WOY, you know I love ya man, but you are so off here it's sad.

I always thought that one purpose behind being a historian was to learn from the past, not use the past to excuse future mistakes.

That's great that Chainsaw Mathis cheated a hundred years ago.

The gentlemen we are talking about used drugs a century advanced to get what I think we could argue were some pretty darn good results.

And they didnt tell anybody. If it's okay for them to do it because Night Train Wilkins injected monkey snot into his buttocks in 1871, then they should have come out and said that.

But they didn't. So for me, the hall vote today is a little justice. If you're going to go do something in the dark of night and then argue that the powers that be really didn't know what happened so we have to let you in...I mean, come on.

And for the rest of the board who wishes to bring up Gaylord Perry and Ty Cobb and amphetamines here's what I tell you:

This is today. We don't have to let someone into the hall today just because there are other people in there you don't like.

Gaylord Perry is not an excuse to do steroids.

Of course it isn't.

But it is cheating... and the guy wrote a book about it and still gets hugs and kisses from the same guys who scream about cheaters.

Its' really kinda funny

[M2]

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

Steroids isn't merely about cheating.

To equate spitballs with steroids is like comparing murder with a speeding ticket.

I'll give you auto theft to reckless driving.

[OldXOhio]

Originally Posted by westofyou

He'll never get in

He won't know the difference anyway...the guy barely speaks any English.

[PuffyPig]

I think there is a big difference between cheating by throwing spitballs (or stealing signs) and cheating by using steroids. Or gambling on baseball.

I'm happy that guys like Sosa, McGwire, Bonds, Piazza, Clemens and Rose are not in the HOF. I didn't particularly like them when they were playing and baseball is more enjoyable to me without them.

But it's a personal preference and if someone wants to vote for them or support them, that is their priviledge and OK by me.

[M2]

Originally Posted by OldXOhio

He won't know the difference anyway...the guy barely speaks any English.

I'm feeling sympathy for the Sammy of late. It seems pretty clear Piazza and Bagwell are eventually going to get in. Meanwhile Sosa's become a punching bag even though there's really nothing that implicates him as a juicer any more than those two. Supposedly Sosa was always a good guy to his teammates and fans. Basically he played hard, treated people with respect and had a good disposition.

And now everybody hates him. There's something really wrong with that.

[Johnny Footstool]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

A lot of commenters on fangraphs are upset that Lofton got "Whitakered".

I love this.

[Johnny Footstool]

Originally Posted by George Anderson

Piazza is worthy of induction but IMO he falls short of being an elite of the elites that the writers want for a first balloter.

How is the greatest hitting catcher of all time not "elite"?