Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

[RANDY IN INDY]

I find it amusing how folks fantasize about Encarnacion in LF as if it were a reality.

[Scrap Irony]

Originally Posted by TRF

The Reds traded for KGJ based on past performance. I hope they always make that trade. What happened after, happened.

No, they traded for KGJ based on what he'd do for them in the now and the future.

That he got injured and the trade was subsequently a poor one was unfortunate, but them's the breaks.

[JaxRed]

If he was waived and was available on a minor league deal I'd take a flyer

[OnBaseMachine]

When the trade was first made I was upset at first, because of my expectations for Stewart. But my opinion completely changed after I gave it more thought. Scott Rolen was always one of my favorite players in the game, even when he was a Cardinal. It was a great honor to watch him play for the Reds. It turned out to be a great deal for the Reds as Rolen played a major role in the Reds turning things around. I have no regrets at all about that trade, even if EdE continues to do what he did in 2012.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by TRF

EE is an athletic ballplayer that was playing out of position. He's pretty good at 1B would probably be average in LF and he has a cannon for an arm. [snip]

Roenicke was certainly replaceable, but it isn't like he's junk. He's had success, though not GREAT success. He manages to keep working at the MLB level. Stewart is the disappointment, BUT AT THE TIME her was considered one of the Reds top prospects.

That is three players for one guy without a single full season as a Red.

.

The way I see it, the Reds traded three guys that had no value to the Reds for one guy that had great value to them. (Must resist analogy )
IMO, Rolen solidifying the cleanup slot in 2010 won the trade for the Reds.
I doubt they make the 2010 playoffs without Rolen. I'll gladly trade 3 marginal guys for a playoff appearance any chance I get.

EdE was a bat fit for the Reds.
He was given many more chances than he deserved. He would've probably never thrived here, even in LF.. My guess is that he needed the shock of being nearly out of baseball to help turn himself around. The two pitching prospects will never be missed.

[RedFanAlways1966]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

He was given many more chances than he deserved. He would've probably never thrived here, even in LF.. My guess is that he needed the shock of being nearly out of baseball to help turn himself around.

That or EE learned a new workout regiment from Jose Bautista and all of a sudden became a 40+ HR guy (previous high of 26). I know... smaller parks and thinner pitching.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by TRF

If Craig Biggio, at age 37 can move to CF, EE at age 29 can certainly handle LF.
.

Except Biggio is a much better athlete/defender than EdE could ever dream of becoming. It's like saying "If Biggio could move from C to 2b, why can't Mesarco or Taubensee?"

EdE had the phsyical tools to be an adequate 3b, that's why Texas/Cincy gave him so much developmental time there. He lacked the concentration and desire to be a good defender. I'm sure that problem would've shown at any position he played.

The best thing that ever happened to EdE was being almost out of a job. That woke him up. That's my theory at least

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by M2

Jocketty made one of the best trades we'll ever see when he landed Scott Rolen. If you can find a deal which completely changed a club's fortunes as immediately and as much as the Rolen deal, I'd love to see it. I've done a good bit of looking around and I can't find anything close.

The closest I can think off the top of my head is the Braves signing Pendleton/Bream ias a FA to solidify the defense as their young pitching was blossoming.

Or maybe Rose coming over as player/manager, and everyone on the perennial loser Reds suddenly started playing better. Oester and Conception were no longer hitting .200 going through the motions.. Other guys played better too.

Those aren't exactly perfect matches, but close.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966

That or EE learned a new workout regiment from Jose Bautista and all of a sudden became a 40+ HR guy (previous high of 26). I know... smaller parks and thinner pitching.

That's a possiblity, that someone else mentioned too.
Maybe the shock of being out of job led him to do that (if indeed he did it).
Will be interesting to watch EdE the next few years.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

Or maybe Rose coming over as player/manager, and everyone on the perennial loser Reds suddenly started playing better. Oester and Conception were no longer hitting .200 going through the motions.. Other guys played better too.

Those aren't exactly perfect matches, but close.

This is freaking a perfect example. The mid 80's Reds and the 2009 Reds are perfect examples. What some people want to write off as "Pete Rose/Scott Rolen" others want to point out outstanding young talent getting older and in turn, performing better because that is what young guys do. That those guys just happened to come in at the right time to benefit from that talent coming to fruition.

[RANDY IN INDY]

Then again, some young guys just don't have the talent it takes to get better at the big league level, as the Rolen trade proved. Some benefit from playing with a pro that knows how to go about his business, on and off the field. Some just need to play.

[M2]

Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966

That or EE learned a new workout regiment from Jose Bautista and all of a sudden became a 40+ HR guy (previous high of 26). I know... smaller parks and thinner pitching.

No, Bautistacizing is a fairly solid theory on this one. Going to be real interesting to see what happens with those two now that HGH testing is coming.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

He was available to play the OF right after he got DFA'ed.

If you want to argue that the Reds should have picked him up then, fine.

But once he was DFA'ed and made available to every team in baseball to pick up free of charge (or close to it), that ends the trade value right there.

With Stewart's DFA on top of the DFAs of both EdE and Josh Roenicke, we can finally close the books on this deal and the circular logic that seems to follow.

In the time between the deal and his DFA, EdE put up a 2.0 WAR (ref, baseball-reference.com) for Toronto.
Stewart put up -1.8 WAR before he was DFA'ed.
Roenicke put up -0.7 in WAR before he was DFA'ed by Toronto.

That's a total of -0.5 WAR for the Blue Jays and others in the deal.

Rolen put up 6.9 WAR in 3 1/4 seasons with the Reds. If you only include the WAR he earned while under the original contract (before re-signing with the Reds), his WAR stood at 5.1.

So Jocketty gave up three players who would, collectively, accumulate less than replacement level results while garnering a 3B who performed at an All-Star level.

Paging Captain Obvious. Captain Obvious, please pick up the courtesy phone at the front desk.

So you count ALL of Rolen's WAR but only a little of EE's. that's pretty damn selective. EE's total WAR with toronto is 6.0 and he'll actually play next year.

Originally Posted by M2

No, Bautistacizing is a fairly solid theory on this one. Going to be real interesting to see what happens with those two now that HGH testing is coming.

So a player busts out, one everyone on this board including yourself touted as a prime candidate to do so just a few years ago when he was a Red, and now it HAS to be HGH?

wow.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY

Then again, some young guys just don't have the talent it takes to get better at the big league level, as the Rolen trade proved. Some benefit from playing with a pro that knows how to go about his business, on and off the field. Some just need to play.

Honest question, what kind of magic teaching do you think Scott Rolen has that Dusty Baker, Brook Jacoby, Bryan Price and Mack Jenkins don't have? Scott Rolen doesn't have some secret that those guys don't know about in teaching the game. Leadership by example? Sure, I can buy that to a small extent. But do you really think Rolen significantly, or even slightly altered the skillset of any of the Reds players that no one else was going to be able to do? And if so, what makes you believe that?

[TRF]

Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY

Then again, some young guys just don't have the talent it takes to get better at the big league level, as the Rolen trade proved. Some benefit from playing with a pro that knows how to go about his business, on and off the field. Some just need to play.

really? EE didn't get better? Name any Red that had a better season than he did last year. I'd say he got at least a little better.

EE's injury, to both his wrists sapped a lot of his power. his rehab likely strengthened them beyond his pre-injury days. So he's older and stronger, but still young. He doesn't have a heavy body. He's in his age prime years and he now is surrounded by a better team than last year. I think he'll at least duplicate his numbers if he stays healthy, the caveat for any player.