Reds roster in 2016

[RedsfaninMT]

In what is not protected material from Baseball America, it is interesting to see that their 2016 lineup has the Choo in LF with Hamilton in CF. I think they are a little off to me to have 1. Cueto 2. Chapman 3. Latos 4. Stephenson 5. Bailey with Corcino as the closer. IF Latos is still here, I would bet he would be #1.

Imagine that lineup though:
1. Hamilton
2. Choo
3. Votto
4. Bruce
5. Mesoraco
6. B.P.
7. Frazier
8. Cozart

I know, too many lefties in a row, but can't see B.P. hitting much higher 4 years from now. Also would guess that somebody else might supplant Frazier at 3B.

[Red Swagger]

The key is Mesoraco. If he can hit for power and average, our line up would be set for the future, slot him in the 4 spot.

B Hamilton
Choo
Votto
Mesoraco
Bruce
Phillips
Frazier
Cozart

This could potentially be our 2014 line up, depends on Luddy and Mes.
I would love to extend Choo, but a few things must go our way. Mesoraco clicking and reaching his potential would be HUGE

[Vottomatic]

Mesoraco reminds me of Stubbs at the plate. Completely has no plan at the plate. Seems to not recognize pitches. Swings at pitches out of the K zone. Undisciplined.

For a catcher to not be able to recognize pitches when he's hitting is almost impossible to do. But he seems clueless at times.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

Mesoraco reminds me of Stubbs at the plate. Completely has no plan at the plate. Seems to not recognize pitches. Swings at pitches out of the K zone. Undisciplined.

For a catcher to not be able to recognize pitches when he's hitting is almost impossible to do. But he seems clueless at times.

Confirmation bias says hello.

Last season Drew Stubbs swung outside the zone 3rd least amount on the team and was grouped well with Ryan Hanigan and Joey Votto before a gap to get to the next guy.

Mesoraco wasn't good, but he wasn't bad either. He was right there with Cozart (Mesoraco was 5th, Cozart 6th).

Check out the leaderboard. Phillips was atrocious. Todd Frazier wasn't good at all either.

[cjtenn28]

Any chance Travieso cracks the 2016 staff?

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Confirmation bias says hello.

Last season Drew Stubbs swung outside the zone 3rd least amount on the team and was grouped well with Ryan Hanigan and Joey Votto before a gap to get to the next guy.

Mesoraco wasn't good, but he wasn't bad either. He was right there with Cozart (Mesoraco was 5th, Cozart 6th).

Check out the leaderboard. Phillips was atrocious. Todd Frazier wasn't good at all either.

My eyes tell me more than the stats do.

Mez is going to be a backup catcher most of his career. Just my opinion.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

My eyes tell me more than the stats do.

Mez is going to be a backup catcher most of his career. Just my opinion.

Your eyes are clearly lying to you then, as shown with actual numerical evidence. Sure, maybe neither guy "has a plan at the plate", but neither guy is chasing pitches outside the zone at some high rate compared to other guys.

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Your eyes are clearly lying to you then, as shown with actual numerical evidence. Sure, maybe neither guy "has a plan at the plate", but neither guy is chasing pitches outside the zone at some high rate compared to other guys.

My eyes "are clearly lying to you then"???? Pretty insulting.

I'll take my eyes over your over reliance on stats any day of the week.

Please learn to just agree to disagree. And respect others opinions. You seem to have to be right all the time and it's annoying.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

My eyes "are clearly lying to you then"???? Pretty insulting.

I'll take my eyes over your over reliance on stats any day of the week.

Please learn to just agree to disagree. And respect others opinions. You seem to have to be right all the time and it's annoying.

When your eyes tell you that guys chase pitches out of the zone all of the time and the data says that they don't, I am not going to just say "agree to disagree". Grass isn't purple, even if you say it is and people aren't going to just say "oh we are going to have to agree to disagree on that" if you say it.

I am not trying to be insulting. I am trying to show you that you are incorrect in something you said. There is a huge difference. If I were insulting you, I would have called you named such as idiot, or moron. But I didn't, because I wasn't trying to insult you. I was simply trying to tell you that what you are perceiving to happen, isn't. At least not with the frequency that you had implied. It isn't an opinion that says that, there are facts involved in it. You very well could be right when you said things like they don't have a plan up there or that Mesoraco might just be a back up (things I can't say I agree with on Mesoraco). But when you say that they both chase pitches out of the zone, implying that they do so more than others, I felt the need to show you otherwise because if I interpreted what you were attempting to say about them, it is untrue.

As for me "always having to be right", it isn't so much that I have to, it is that I generally don't start to say something unless I have a strong feeling that I AM right about what I am going to say. When I don't know, or don't have a good reasoning behind what I believe, I just don't talk. Well, except in those few scenarios were we get overemotional to a scenario.

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

When your eyes tell you that guys chase pitches out of the zone all of the time and the data says that they don't, I am not going to just say "agree to disagree". Grass isn't purple, even if you say it is and people aren't going to just say "oh we are going to have to agree to disagree on that" if you say it.

I am not trying to be insulting. I am trying to show you that you are incorrect in something you said. There is a huge difference. If I were insulting you, I would have called you named such as idiot, or moron. But I didn't, because I wasn't trying to insult you. I was simply trying to tell you that what you are perceiving to happen, isn't. At least not with the frequency that you had implied. It isn't an opinion that says that, there are facts involved in it. You very well could be right when you said things like they don't have a plan up there or that Mesoraco might just be a back up (things I can't say I agree with on Mesoraco). But when you say that they both chase pitches out of the zone, implying that they do so more than others, I felt the need to show you otherwise because if I interpreted what you were attempting to say about them, it is untrue.

As for me "always having to be right", it isn't so much that I have to, it is that I generally don't start to say something unless I have a strong feeling that I AM right about what I am going to say. When I don't know, or don't have a good reasoning behind what I believe, I just don't talk. Well, except in those few scenarios were we get overemotional to a scenario.

I decided to delete my response. There's no use in arguing with you.

[Salukifan2]

I think the reds need to make a decision. Either chose Hannigan and move mez to another club while he still has value or start Mez. Since it is Dusty's call i doubt Mez will get much playing time.

Also, you can't say Mez will never hit major league pitching. Do you remember Yadi's slash line his first few years in the bigs?

[11larkin11]

From Doug's stats he posted, it looks like what people are seeing is Stubbs MISSING on outside pitches way more often than anyone else. When a guy hits a pitch out of the zone, no one really notices. Its when he swings and misses at pitches out of the zone when people notice. That's why your eyes tell you one thing, but the truth lies somewhere else. Yes, Stubbs swings and MISSES at too many pitches out of the zone.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by 11larkin11

From Doug's stats he posted, it looks like what people are seeing is Stubbs MISSING on outside pitches way more often than anyone else. When a guy hits a pitch out of the zone, no one really notices. Its when he swings and misses at pitches out of the zone when people notice. That's why your eyes tell you one thing, but the truth lies somewhere else. Yes, Stubbs swings and MISSES at too many pitches out of the zone.

Pretty much. Stubbs doesn't chase much, but when he does, unlike just about everyone else in baseball, he misses more than half of the time.

[BLark = HOF]

Stubbs watched a lot of piped fastballs. It seems more of him watching pitches than swinging at pitches outside of the zone.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by BLark = HOF

Stubbs watched a lot of piped fastballs. It seems more of him watching pitches than swinging at pitches outside of the zone.