Top 10 bullpens in MLB history

[RedsBaron]

Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY

I'd say all those innings with that ERA made him pretty special.

I agree.

[cumberlandreds]

The 75 bullpen is a bit underrated. They got the job done most of the time but did without really being dominant. The 90 team had three relievers who could blow people away. The 75 one didn't really do that except for Eastwick. I kinda equate Borbon with Cordero. He would put a lot of people on base but could riggle out of the jam without any or much damage most of the time. He truly had a rubber arm also. It seemed like he could pitcher everyday and not lose anything off his pitches.

[westofyou]

Pedro was great and good, not elite

CAREER
1970-1977

GAMES STARTED <= 5
RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
INNINGS PITCHED >= 300

ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE     GS      RSAA      IP     
1    Sparky Lyle                1.24     2.41     3.65        0       98    753.2   
2    Gary Lavelle               1.19     2.50     3.69        0       49    327.2   
3    Jim Brewer                 1.13     2.54     3.67        0       43    447     
4    Ramon Hernandez            0.89     2.72     3.61        0       35    370.2   
5    Rawly Eastwick             0.88     2.80     3.68        1       31    312.1   
6    Steve Mingori              0.82     2.81     3.63        1       52    468     
7    Ken Sanders                0.76     2.76     3.52        0       39    505.1   
8    Al Hrabosky                0.75     2.93     3.68        1       39    451.1   
9    Dave Giusti                0.64     3.06     3.70        3       42    704     
10   Charlie Hough              0.63     3.05     3.68        1       27    522.2   
11   Bob Locker                 0.56     2.96     3.52        0       24    377     
12   Jack Aker                  0.55     3.03     3.58        0       22    321     
13   Pedro Borbon               0.54     3.11     3.64        4       40    776.2   
14   Steve Foucault             0.53     3.21     3.74        0       26    457     
15   Danny Frisella             0.42     3.20     3.62        2       22    481     
16   Horacio Pina               0.40     3.14     3.55        0        7    352     
17   Dave LaRoche               0.30     3.31     3.61        4       20    642     
18   Randy Moffitt              0.29     3.35     3.64        1       27    537.2   
19   Wayne Granger              0.23     3.33     3.56        0        9    451     
20   Dave Tomlin                0.22     3.47     3.69        1       -4    347.1   
21   Frank Linzy                0.18     3.44     3.62        1        6    311     
22   Dale Murray                0.17     3.50     3.67        1       13    396.1   
23   Tom Burgmeier              0.17     3.47     3.64        0       16    602     
24   Elias Sosa                 0.16     3.49     3.65        2       15    446     
25   Tom Buskey                 0.13     3.56     3.69        0        4    320.2   
26   Jim Ray                    0.10     3.57     3.67        3        1    414     
27   Joe Hoerner                -.01     3.66     3.65        0        4    305

ALL LEAGUES & TEAMS
ALL YEARS
ALL POSITIONS
GAMES STARTED < 2
INNINGS PITCHED >= 120
GAMES >= 50


1    Pedro Borbon             1973-77    5   
T2   Dick Radatz              1962-65    4   
T2   Dan Quisenberry          1982-85    4   
4    Rollie Fingers           1975-77    3   
T5   Hoyt Wilhelm             1952-53    2   
T5   Ron Perranoski           1963-64    2   
T5   Hoyt Wilhelm             1964-65    2   
T5   Lindy McDaniel           1965-66    2   
T5   Wilbur Wood              1969-70    2   
T5   John Hiller              1973-74    2   
T5   Mike Marshall            1973-74    2   
T5   Bill Campbell            1976-77    2   
T5   Charlie Hough            1976-77    2   
T5   Goose Gossage            1977-78    2   
T5   Kent Tekulve             1978-79    2   
T5   Enrique Romo             1979-80    2   
T5   Aurelio Lopez            1979-80    2   
T5   Mark Eichhorn            1986-87    2   
T5   Jeff Robinson            1987-88    2

[westofyou]

FWIW

The 75 BP was essentially 4 guys

CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
1975

GAMES STARTED <= 5
RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria

ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE     GS      RSAA    
1    Will McEnaney              1.16     2.47     3.63        0       13   
2    Rawly Eastwick             1.03     2.60     3.63        0       11   
3    Clay Carroll               1.01     2.63     3.63        2       12   
4    Pedro Borbon               0.68     2.95     3.63        0       11

[RedsBaron]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Pedro was great and good, not elite

CAREER
1970-1977

GAMES STARTED <= 5
RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
INNINGS PITCHED >= 300

ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE     GS      RSAA      IP     
1    Sparky Lyle                1.24     2.41     3.65        0       98    753.2   
2    Gary Lavelle               1.19     2.50     3.69        0       49    327.2   
3    Jim Brewer                 1.13     2.54     3.67        0       43    447     
4    Ramon Hernandez            0.89     2.72     3.61        0       35    370.2   
5    Rawly Eastwick             0.88     2.80     3.68        1       31    312.1   
6    Steve Mingori              0.82     2.81     3.63        1       52    468     
7    Ken Sanders                0.76     2.76     3.52        0       39    505.1   
8    Al Hrabosky                0.75     2.93     3.68        1       39    451.1   
9    Dave Giusti                0.64     3.06     3.70        3       42    704     
10   Charlie Hough              0.63     3.05     3.68        1       27    522.2   
11   Bob Locker                 0.56     2.96     3.52        0       24    377     
12   Jack Aker                  0.55     3.03     3.58        0       22    321     
13   Pedro Borbon               0.54     3.11     3.64        4       40    776.2   
14   Steve Foucault             0.53     3.21     3.74        0       26    457     
15   Danny Frisella             0.42     3.20     3.62        2       22    481     
16   Horacio Pina               0.40     3.14     3.55        0        7    352     
17   Dave LaRoche               0.30     3.31     3.61        4       20    642     
18   Randy Moffitt              0.29     3.35     3.64        1       27    537.2   
19   Wayne Granger              0.23     3.33     3.56        0        9    451     
20   Dave Tomlin                0.22     3.47     3.69        1       -4    347.1   
21   Frank Linzy                0.18     3.44     3.62        1        6    311     
22   Dale Murray                0.17     3.50     3.67        1       13    396.1   
23   Tom Burgmeier              0.17     3.47     3.64        0       16    602     
24   Elias Sosa                 0.16     3.49     3.65        2       15    446     
25   Tom Buskey                 0.13     3.56     3.69        0        4    320.2   
26   Jim Ray                    0.10     3.57     3.67        3        1    414     
27   Joe Hoerner                -.01     3.66     3.65        0        4    305

ALL LEAGUES & TEAMS
ALL YEARS
ALL POSITIONS
GAMES STARTED < 2
INNINGS PITCHED >= 120
GAMES >= 50


1    Pedro Borbon             1973-77    5   
T2   Dick Radatz              1962-65    4   
T2   Dan Quisenberry          1982-85    4   
4    Rollie Fingers           1975-77    3   
T5   Hoyt Wilhelm             1952-53    2   
T5   Ron Perranoski           1963-64    2   
T5   Hoyt Wilhelm             1964-65    2   
T5   Lindy McDaniel           1965-66    2   
T5   Wilbur Wood              1969-70    2   
T5   John Hiller              1973-74    2   
T5   Mike Marshall            1973-74    2   
T5   Bill Campbell            1976-77    2   
T5   Charlie Hough            1976-77    2   
T5   Goose Gossage            1977-78    2   
T5   Kent Tekulve             1978-79    2   
T5   Enrique Romo             1979-80    2   
T5   Aurelio Lopez            1979-80    2   
T5   Mark Eichhorn            1986-87    2   
T5   Jeff Robinson            1987-88    2

Borbon lead everyone on that list in innings pitched. He wasn't an elite pitcher but he was an elite innings eater which probably helped the other members of the staff remain effective.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Borbon would've had much better numbers had he not gotten pinch hit for by Manny Mota.

[George Anderson]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Borbon would've had much better numbers had he not gotten pinch hit for by Manny Mota.

Roger

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Borbon would've had much better numbers had he not gotten pinch hit for by Manny Mota.

[traderumor]

"MLB history" happened before the 70s, also. I think any attempt to rank "bullpens" and link to MLB history is a flawed principle from the outset. Bullpens evolved and that affects any type of ranking. You can only rank bullpens by era because bullpen usage had distinct characteristics in different periods.

For example, you would have the early years from 1880s through WWII. From WWII-through the 50s, the 60s, the 70s-mid 80s, mid 80s to early 90s, and mid 90s to current. Trying to rank a 70s bullpen with a current bullpen is a category error.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by traderumor

"MLB history" happened before the 70s, also. I think any attempt to rank "bullpens" and link to MLB history is a flawed principle from the outset. Bullpens evolved and that affects any type of ranking. You can only rank bullpens by era because bullpen usage had distinct characteristics in different periods.

For example, you would have the early years from 1880s through WWII. From WWII-through the 50s, the 60s, the 70s-mid 80s, mid 80s to early 90s, and mid 90s to current. Trying to rank a 70s bullpen with a current bullpen is a category error.

You mean like this:

CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
1961

RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
GAMES STARTED <= 2
INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria

ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE    RSAA      GS       IP     
1    Bill Henry                 1.82     2.21     4.03       11        0     53     
2    Jim Brosnan                0.99     3.04     4.03       10        0     80     
3    Howie Nunn                 0.48     3.55     4.03        3        0     38     
4    Sherman Jones              -.39     4.42     4.03       -2        2     55     

CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
1967

RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
GAMES STARTED <= 2
INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria

ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE    RSAA      GS       IP     
1    Ted Abernathy              2.10     1.27     3.38       28        0    106     
2    Don Nottebart              1.44     1.94     3.38       15        0     79     
3    Bob Lee                   -1.06     4.44     3.38       -4        1     50.2

LOS ANGELES DODGERS
SEASON
1966

RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
GAMES STARTED <= 2
INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria

ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE    RSAA      GS       IP     
1    Phil Regan                 1.99     1.62     3.61       23        0    117     
2    Bob Miller                 0.82     2.79     3.61        5        0     84     
3    Ron Perranoski             0.42     3.18     3.61        2        0     82

Groups back then tend to be 3 to 4 guys with the 4th being a dog

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by westofyou

You mean like this:

CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
1961

RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
GAMES STARTED <= 2
INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria

ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE    RSAA      GS       IP     
1    Bill Henry                 1.82     2.21     4.03       11        0     53     
2    Jim Brosnan                0.99     3.04     4.03       10        0     80     
3    Howie Nunn                 0.48     3.55     4.03        3        0     38     
4    Sherman Jones              -.39     4.42     4.03       -2        2     55     

CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
1967

RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
GAMES STARTED <= 2
INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria

ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE    RSAA      GS       IP     
1    Ted Abernathy              2.10     1.27     3.38       28        0    106     
2    Don Nottebart              1.44     1.94     3.38       15        0     79     
3    Bob Lee                   -1.06     4.44     3.38       -4        1     50.2

LOS ANGELES DODGERS
SEASON
1966

RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
GAMES STARTED <= 2
INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria

ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE    RSAA      GS       IP     
1    Phil Regan                 1.99     1.62     3.61       23        0    117     
2    Bob Miller                 0.82     2.79     3.61        5        0     84     
3    Ron Perranoski             0.42     3.18     3.61        2        0     82

Groups back then tend to be 3 to 4 guys with the 4th being a dog

Yea, and that started in about the post WWII era and extended through the 60s. Then came Sparky and things started to morph into a more specialized bullpen and relievers were not just default failed starters.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Yea, and that started in about the post WWII era and extended through the 60s. Then came Sparky and things started to morph into a more specialized bullpen and relievers were not just default failed starters.

You play a lot of Strat prior to divisional play, you must carry 9 guys tops on your staff, with most starters logging 8 innings a start correct?

Do you tend to get top shelf BP performance from your squads while the computer sticks with the starters more?

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by westofyou

You play a lot of Strat prior to divisional play, you must carry 9 guys tops on your staff, with most starters logging 8 innings a start correct?

Do you tend to get top shelf BP performance from your squads while the computer sticks with the starters more?

It is hard for me to manage the pre-70s teams. I have an itchy trigger finger with starters and it is hard to leave them in, just out of habit. The computer sticks with the starters more, good and bad, if you do not set up a "Super Hal" bullpen pecking order. If it is just the computer, it will always leave the starter in longer.

I still think Strat as played replays are a fun way to learn the history of the game. Coupled with the internet, I've come to appreciate that there are always a lot of good players out there who were not "names," but very good players in their day. Maybe sportswriters could get up to speed on their HOF voting privilege if they played Strat

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool

No love for Scott Scudder? The Scud Missile? Really?

I remembered Scudder as the Sam Lecure of the early 90's. Very weak results if he went to the rotation, very impressive results if he had to come out of the pen.

I remember a puff piece discussing how he had pitched so well in relief that they refused to move him to the rotation even though he was likely next in line.