2013 Bengals Discussion

[RiverRat13]

Originally Posted by Redhook

So, Andre Smith just got arrested at the Atlanta airport for possession of a gun. Nice. He might not be the brightest bulb on the tree, but at least he has good timing!

We can bring him back at a discount!

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by RiverRat13

We can bring him back at a discount!

Mike Brown? Is that you?

[5TimeWSChamps]

Originally Posted by RiverRat13

We can bring him back at a discount!

Absolutely. Makes it easier to resign him.

[Redhook]

Originally Posted by 5TimeWSChamps

Absolutely. Makes it easier to resign him.

Yep, Mikey Boy was probably grinning ear to ear when he heard the news.

[WMR]

A gun at an airport. That truly is just about as dumb as you can possibly get. Congratulations to you, Mr. I Bring a Gun to an Airport Man.

[KoryMac5]

I don't see the Bengals resigning Smith with or without the gun charge. Honestly that charge will do nothing to his value, kid has had zero issues except weight since he has been in the NFL and the weight has been under control lately. One or two teams will pony up for the services of Smith, who is considered a top RT. I don't feel they (The Bengals) think he is that much of an upgrade over Collins to justify a contract that size. However I have been wrong before.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by WMR

A gun at an airport. That truly is just about as dumb as you can possibly get. Congratulations to you, Mr. I Bring a Gun to an Airport Man.

Akron had the city council president get arrested for bringing a gun to the airport. Of course, he's a mover and shaker in the local politcal machine, so he got a slap on the wrist and it was all swept under the rug.

As long as he's legally registered, I suspect he's going to get fines and costs and the whole thing will be forgotten in a few months.

[Brisco]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

Quarterbacks who I believe had a better season than Dalton.

Aaron Rodgers
Peyton Manning
Robert Griffin III
Russell Wilson
Matt Ryan
Tom Brady
Ben Roethlisberger
Drew Brees
Matt Schaub
Tony Romo
Philip Rivers
Joe Flacco
Eli Manning
Cam Newton
Andrew Luck
Josh Freeman
Matthew Stafford


I'd argue each of these guys put up a better season than Dalton. Can you knock two or three of the list? Sure. But at best you're arguing that he's a very middle of the pack quarterback.

Can he improve? Sure. But ask how many of these guys he's likely to move past next year, or the year after that?

Dalton has two years in the NFL. Other than the often repeated lack of arm strength (generally subjective) criterion, does anyone have anything objective to show why he won't improve? Let's just use the list above for QBs that have been around for 2 years or more

None of the following QBs proved their ablity to be the reason for a win (and not just be part of a team that won) in their first two years in the NFL:

Aaron Rodgers (carried a clipboard)
Tom Brady less than 190 yards per game after 2 years in the league (Yes Tom Brady... even though he won a superbowl, it was not because of him which is also true for the early performance of...
Ben Roethlisberger - 52-43 TD to INT ratio after 3 years, averaged less than 200 yards per game
Drew Brees (There is a reason they drafted Rivers after 2 years of Brees)
Matt Schaub - still carrying a clipboard after 2 years
Eli Manning - was being labeled a huge bust by Giants fans, like a 70 QB rating after 2 years, less than 200 yards a game, 30-26 TD to INT ratio
Matt Stafford - abyssmal 19-21 TD to INT ratio, QB rating around 70
Josh Freeman - 51-46 TD to INT ratio after 3 years
Tony Romo - nothing but clipboard duty 2 years in
Philip Rivers - clipboard duty first 2 years
Joe Flacco - Rating very close to Daltons after 2 years

That leaves the following QBs with objective stats to prove future potential after their second (or first) year in the NFL:

Peyton Manning (1st overall draft pick)
Cam Newton (1st overall draft pick)
Matt Ryan (3rd overall draft pick)
Andrew Luck (1st overall draft pick)
Robert Griffin III (2nd overall draft pick)


To sum up:
1. After 2 years in the NFL MOST QBs, even those that are eventual hall of famers, are still huge question marks.
2. If you want to avoid #1, then you have to draft your QB in one of the first three picks overall... a position I never want the bengals to be in again.
3. Folks that look use their subjective view to conclude that his arm strength makes it so he will be mediocre at best as an NFL QB probably have had that view since before he was drafted, and nothing less than consecutive SB victories or a Brees like statistical explosion will ever change their minds.
4. Andy Dalton is the Bengals QB for the forseeable future. Absent a huge reversion to a 4-12 season, we will not ever be in a position to draft a QB that has better objective odds of rising to the level of top 10 in the NFL. Nor are sure-fire Franchise QBs available on the FA or trade market. Brees and Manning are the only two i can think of in the past 15 years, and both were huge injury risks at the time.
5. Arguing over whether or not he is or is not the QB to take the team over the top is a fruitless exercise... we simply do not have the ability to find a replacement that objectivly provides more potential.
6. i agree with those who say build around him... if you feel he is a game manager, great. Use the cap savings (A game manager will never demand the cap space of a game winner) and the early draft pick to raise the defense to a top three. In terms of results, I would be totally fine being a ravens fan for the last 15 years... over a decade of annual contention, a SB victory and another potential championship? That sounds like nirvana for all but 2 or 3 NFL fandoms.

Brisco

[camisadelgolf]

Crazy hypothetical about Palmer not getting hurt in the '05 playoffs.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/cincinnati...by-the-Raiders

[Benihana]

3 months to go...Updated Top 5 Wish Lists for the Draft

Pick 21
1. Jarvis Jones LB Georgia
2. Alec Ogletree LB Georgia
3. Manti Teo MLB Notre Dame
4. Kenny Vaccaro SS Texas
5. Keith Minter LB LSU

Pick 38
1. Cordarelle Patterson WR Tennessee
2. Keenan Allen WR Cal
3. Justin Hunter WR Tennessee
4. Terrence Williams WR Baylor
5. Tyler Eifert TE Notre Dame

Pick 53
1. Matt Elam (if no Vaccaro in Rd 1) S Florida
2. Eric Reid (if no Vaccaro in Rd 1) S LSU
3. Montee Ball RB Wisconsin
4. Giovanni Bernard RB N.Carolina
5. Kenjon Barner RB Oregon

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Benihana

3 months to go...Updated Top 5 Wish Lists for the Draft

Pick 21
1. Jarvis Jones LB Georgia
2. Alec Ogletree LB Georgia
3. Manti Teo MLB Notre Dame
4. Kenny Vaccaro SS Texas
5. Keith Minter LB LSU

Pick 38
1. Cordarelle Patterson WR Tennessee
2. Keenan Allen WR Cal
3. Justin Hunter WR Tennessee
4. Terrence Williams WR Baylor
5. Tyler Eifert TE Notre Dame

Pick 53
1. Matt Elam (if no Vaccaro in Rd 1) S Florida
2. Eric Reid (if no Vaccaro in Rd 1) S LSU
3. Montee Ball RB Wisconsin
4. Giovanni Bernard RB N.Carolina
5. Kenjon Barner RB Oregon

Why no Barrett Jones (C, Alabama) on those lists?

[WMR]

Is Manti Teo really being projected as a first rounder? He looked sooo weak in the NC, hard to see him as a starting MLB in the NFL.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Benihana

3 months to go...Updated Top 5 Wish Lists for the Draft

Pick 21
1. Jarvis Jones LB Georgia
2. Alec Ogletree LB Georgia
3. Manti Teo MLB Notre Dame
4. Kenny Vaccaro SS Texas
5. Keith Minter LB LSU

Pick 38
1. Cordarelle Patterson WR Tennessee
2. Keenan Allen WR Cal
3. Justin Hunter WR Tennessee
4. Terrence Williams WR Baylor
5. Tyler Eifert TE Notre Dame

Pick 53
1. Matt Elam (if no Vaccaro in Rd 1) S Florida
2. Eric Reid (if no Vaccaro in Rd 1) S LSU
3. Montee Ball RB Wisconsin
4. Giovanni Bernard RB N.Carolina
5. Kenjon Barner RB Oregon

I don't see Jones being there at 21. I have seen LSU DE's at 21 which I am not too fond of. They need a S or LB in that spot. I wouldn't mind Teo but I think he may be similar to Maualuga in an overhyped poster child for college football. If those guys are there I am taking Vaccaro.

Round 2 I would look for RB, WR, or LB/S if you don't address that with 21.

As for TE I like the guy from UC, Kelce. I think he could be a new hybrid TE similar to Hernandez in NE.

[Wonderful Monds]

Looks like the Jets have Revis on the block. Is there anything there for the Bengals?

[medford]

Probably not. They've still got Hall, I'll assume they're still high on the potential of Kirkpatrick, Newman said he wants to come back, perhaps Pacman as well, don't know if Allen is under contract for next season or not.

Reevis is expensive, coming off injury, will potentially cost a 2nd round pick or more, and will be a free agent at seasons' end or be demanding a ton to be resigned and has a history of trying to re-do his contract every few years. A lot to give up for an area that is not a huge need, for a guy that may or may not be as good coming back from injury next season.

The bengals have the chance to add 3 solid young players who they can control for the next 4 seasons and several areas that need to be addressed (interior offensive line, line backer, safty, WR, RB) assuming they resign their own this offseason.