Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

[TRF]

I figured he was Rolen's replacement. Every GM thinks his staff can fix any player. How many times was "Gully can fix him" said on this board? But i certainly concede i might have that wrong.

woy, I don't think Kendall is a good argument. EE was never slammed for his range at 3B. it was all mechanical for throwing the ball. His arm strength was never questioned as said ball often sailed more than short hopped. He's got the arm to play OF, and LF arm strength simply isn't needed as much. that extra step would have likely helped him throwing whereas the quick throw from third was his nemesis. Kendall's first OF games came after he had played 700+ games at catcher. not really the same thing.

I'd ask this. Does anyone really think EE would have less range in LF than Ryan Ludwick?

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by Boss-Hog

To TRF's assertion that the Jays would not have made the deal without EE, I distinctly remember at the time of the trade that the Jays were fairly open that they did NOT want him; taking him was likely a requirement to balance the salaries and/or for the Reds to part with Stewart.

They later released him, so let's not pretend they identified some diamond in the rough that they insisted upon being included.

That's the way I remember it.

[TRF]

Also, they may not have identified a diamond in the rough... but he seems to have turned into what MOST on this board thought he was capable of offensively.

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by TRF

I'd ask this. Does anyone really think EE would have less range in LF than Ryan Ludwick?

I do.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

I do.

seriously? Ludwick plays the position smart, but i think he's being positioned. he runs like a pregnant camel in a forest fire.

[Wonderful Monds]

Originally Posted by TRF

I figured he was Rolen's replacement. Every GM thinks his staff can fix any player. How many times was "Gully can fix him" said on this board? But i certainly concede i might have that wrong.

woy, I don't think Kendall is a good argument. EE was never slammed for his range at 3B. it was all mechanical for throwing the ball. His arm strength was never questioned as said ball often sailed more than short hopped. He's got the arm to play OF, and LF arm strength simply isn't needed as much. that extra step would have likely helped him throwing whereas the quick throw from third was his nemesis. Kendall's first OF games came after he had played 700+ games at catcher. not really the same thing.

I'd ask this. Does anyone really think EE would have less range in LF than Ryan Ludwick?

Edwin was slammed for his range alright. By me in this very thread no less. His supposed 3B range was a complete myth, and this has been pointed out for years by plenty of skeptics on this board.

[Scrap Irony]

Originally Posted by TRF

I'd ask this. Does anyone really think EE would have less range in LF than Ryan Ludwick?

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by TRF

Also, they may not have identified a diamond in the rough... but he seems to have turned into what MOST on this board thought he was capable of offensively.

Most thought he was capable of an MLB top 6 OPS? Highly doubtful.

[westofyou]

I know what I think the outlier is

.262/.345/.449 2000 PAs 2005-2009 
.261/.322/.465 904 PAs 2010-2011
.280/.384/.557 572 PAs 2012

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by TRF

well, perhaps that was the one that caught my attention. I do believe he is willing to part with top prospects, HOW they turn out may not be relevant. If the industry at large perceives them to be top prospects, then they have value. And that perceived value is important. It gives the team that controls them leverage. Now maybe the Reds ML coaches knew that Stewart was going to top out as a AAA-AAAA pitcher. Maybe, but then the Reds coaches and talent evaluators were not really producing ANY credible pitching. It's the same team that thought Stubbs was a leadoff hitter despite the fact that he failed at that at every stop in the minors. but I digress...

I think EE and Roenicke should have been enough with the information available at the time. I also think EE to LF was certainly possible then, as he was/is athletic, has a powerful arm and some speed. I absolutely believe he could have replaced Adam Dunn the day Dunn was traded. But that is a serious move that requires Harbaugh like guts.

Seriously, Johnny bench had a few games in CF. EE can handle LF pretty much anywhere.

Ok, lets assume Stewart had a high percieved value among the league that exceeded his actual value. Can we agree to this? Because he's certainly been a flop so far.

If you have an asset whose percieved value is greater than the actual value, it makes a lot of sense to cash him in at that point.

If Stewart is percieved as being worth a dollar, and his actual value is 10 cents, but the Reds trade him for 80 cents, isn't that still a shrewd trade.

EdE had negative value at the time of the trade. I think he was due 5 million dollars the next year and had no defined position and no one ever expected him to amount to anything. If we are saying that Stewart must be evaluated on percieved value, then we have to be realistic about EdE's percieved value too. EdE was a liability. This was proven when he was released. The Reds tossed him in the trade because they couldn't afford to carry his salary on the bench.

Maybe you can make the argument that the Reds could've kept EdE, and took on more salary to get Rolen, and then MAYBE a prospect other than Stewart could've been dealt, but I think that's a longshot. You got to give Toronto something they want, otherwise they'll just keep Rolen until he becomes a FA.

I can't think of a midyear trade in my lifetime where a valuable veterans was traded midseason for what was percieved as pure chaff at the time (thats what Roenickee and EdE were at the time of the trade).. Maybe it's happened in a pure salary dump, but it's a rare occurance. Rolen was playing well at the time of the trade. Toronto was in a position to get something useful for him or just keep him. Toronto has shown that they will hold a guy rather than trade him for a lowball offer. Please, let's give them some credit.. This is like saying the Yankees could've picked up Neagle without a Henson/Pena prospect as the centerpiece, because Neagle was leaving as a FA anyhow..

Just because Redszone percieved Stewart as valuable, doesn't mean the Reds did. For all we know, Jocketty and company may have muted the phone and laughed when Toronto asked for Stewart. Something really smells bad about Stewart.. he's so young, yet already been passed around a lot. A lot of teams have given up on him already. It's pretty telling that Pittsburg couldn't find a place on their roster for him as the mopup man out of the pen.

[Gallen5862]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

White Sox Outright Zach Stewart To Triple-A
By Zach Links [January 29 at 3:53pm CST]
Today's outright assignments..

The White Sox have outrighted Zach Stewart to Triple-A Charlotte, according to Dan Hayes of CSNChicago (on Twitter). The move removes the right-hander off of the 40-man roster, which now stands at 39. Chicago claimed Stewart just last week.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by TRF

seriously? Ludwick plays the position smart, but i think he's being positioned. he runs like a pregnant camel in a forest fire.

When have you ever seen a pregnant camel in a forest fire?

[Always Red]

Originally Posted by TRF

seriously? Ludwick plays the position smart, but i think he's being positioned. he runs like a pregnant camel in a forest fire.

Seriously? Ludwick plays a fine LF- not as good as Heisey, but better than anyone we've had out there in a while. He's not exactly Sean Casey out there running, or even Scott Rolen.

EE never played the position as a Red; assuming he would be better than Ludwick is a huge leap of faith.

[AtomicDumpling]

Originally Posted by Boss-Hog

To TRF's assertion that the Jays would not have made the deal without EE, I distinctly remember at the time of the trade that the Jays were fairly open that they did NOT want him; taking him was likely a requirement to balance the salaries and/or for the Reds to part with Stewart.

They later released him, so let's not pretend they identified some diamond in the rough that they insisted upon being included.

Like many trades this day and age, this deal was more about the money than the talent of the players involved. The Blue Jays wanted to shed Rolen's salary while getting some talent in return. At the time of the trade EE had a career 103 OPS+ and was a solid major league hitter. The problem with his trade value was not his talent it was his salary, specifically his upcoming salary in future seasons. He was an arbitration-eligible player due a big raise, not a guy another team could snag and keep for free. The Blue Jays signed Encarnacion to a $6 million contract a couple months after they released him. If they didn't want him or if they thought he was no good they wouldn't have given him that kind of coin. His release was a money-saving move, not a move to get rid of a bad player. If they hadn't released him they would have had to go to arbitration with him and he would have gotten a big raise over his $5 million salary from the previous season.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by TRF

seriously? Ludwick plays the position smart, but i think he's being positioned. he runs like a pregnant camel in a forest fire.

Positioned?

I assume that EE had the same chance to be positioned.

You make it sound like "positioning" was something only the Reds were privy too, and only after EE was gone.