Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

The Blue Jays signed Encarnacion to a $6 million contract a couple months after they released him. If they didn't want him or if they thought he was no good they wouldn't have given him that kind of coin. His release was a money-saving move, not a move to get rid of a bad player.

For clarity purposes, they gave him a one year, $2.5MM contract with a one year club option of $3.5MM. David Ross got more than that this year, and all guaranteed.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

Like many trades this day and age, this deal was more about the money than the talent of the players involved. The Blue Jays wanted to shed Rolen's salary while getting some talent in return. At the time of the trade EE had a career 103 OPS+ and was a solid major league hitter. The problem with his trade value was not his talent it was his salary, specifically his upcoming salary in future seasons. He was an arbitration-eligible player due a big raise, not a guy another team could snag and keep for free. The Blue Jays signed Encarnacion to a $6 million contract a couple months after they released him. If they didn't want him or if they thought he was no good they wouldn't have given him that kind of coin. His release was a money-saving move, not a move to get rid of a bad player. If they hadn't released him they would have had to go to arbitration with him and he would have gotten a big raise over his $5 million salary from the previous season.

This is possible, but they also took the risk that someone else could snag him by doing so. I wouldn't recommend this as a strategy to build a team with good players. The Jays come out smelling like a rose thanks to EE having a career year, but lets not completely rewrite history as if they were super geniuses. They saved a few million dollars, but still signed a suspect player for $6M, and took the risk that they would lose him to save this couple of million dollars. That's a great recipe for mediocrity, and lo and behold, that is exactly what the Jays have been. Now they have decided to become Miami north, we'll see how they fare with their offseason splash, but EE is more an example of sometimes average, throwaway players have a good year and make everyone look smarter than they really are.

[kaldaniels]

I'd simply say EE kinda fell back into the Jays lap. Hard to argue against that.

Having said that I think at the time most would have acknowledged that he was a serviceable player who should have found a job somewhere, at the right price. It's correct to say many of his transactions in 2009-10 were due to cost.

I actually suspect he has turned the Bautista-like corner, and will have another good/great season. Why (rhetorically speaking) do we spend so much time arguing about Stewart when the real piece we "should" be upset (not that it bothers me) about is EE? That's just comedy to me.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

Why (rhetorically speaking) do we spend so much time arguing about Stewart when the real piece we "should" be upset (not that it bothers me) about is EE? That's just comedy to me.

Probably because he passed through waivers and anyone (including us) could have gotten him for the cost of his salary.

[M2]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

Like many trades this day and age, this deal was more about the money than the talent of the players involved. The Blue Jays wanted to shed Rolen's salary while getting some talent in return. At the time of the trade EE had a career 103 OPS+ and was a solid major league hitter. The problem with his trade value was not his talent it was his salary, specifically his upcoming salary in future seasons. He was an arbitration-eligible player due a big raise, not a guy another team could snag and keep for free. The Blue Jays signed Encarnacion to a $6 million contract a couple months after they released him. If they didn't want him or if they thought he was no good they wouldn't have given him that kind of coin. His release was a money-saving move, not a move to get rid of a bad player. If they hadn't released him they would have had to go to arbitration with him and he would have gotten a big raise over his $5 million salary from the previous season.

Good points, but buried in there is the reason the Reds should weep no tears over trading EdE. The Jays were perfectly willing to lose Encarnacion if he didn't take a pay cut and, in fact, did lose him briefly. The Reds got there a year earlier, deciding he was never going to stick at 3B. The Jays tried him at 3B, reached the same conclusion but ultimately had a DH job to offer him. If the Reds had a DH job or didn't have Votto you can make the argument he was still a valuable asset to the club. As it was, his contract and inability to play 3B meant the Reds either were dealing EdE in 2009 or cutting him afterward.

[Caveat Emperor]

I can't believe people are seriously arguing that the Reds didn't dominate this trade -- they could have claimed both Encarnacion and Stewart off waivers at various points after the trade was made.

If they were that enamored with either guy, they could have had both of them AND Rolen in the organization right now.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

I can't believe people are seriously arguing that the Reds didn't dominate this trade -- they could have claimed both Encarnacion and Stewart off waivers at various points after the trade was made.

If they were that enamored with either guy, they could have had both of them AND Rolen in the organization right now.

Actually, Roenicke too. All three were pretty much released/DFA'd by Toronto.


But, really, what difference does it make? It's pretty much like the other trades that Jocketty has done. He's gotten what the Reds needed, damned the cost, and, well, most of them have worked out. This one was one of his better ones, regardless of what Encarnacion or Stewart have done.

[camisadelgolf]

Did the Reds make a mistake in not claiming Encarnacion, Roenicke, or Stewart on waivers? Maybe--especially in the case of Encarnacion. But did the Reds make a mistake in pulling the trigger on the trade? Heck no.

[AtomicDumpling]

Originally Posted by traderumor

This is possible, but they also took the risk that someone else could snag him by doing so. I wouldn't recommend this as a strategy to build a team with good players. The Jays come out smelling like a rose thanks to EE having a career year, but lets not completely rewrite history as if they were super geniuses. They saved a few million dollars, but still signed a suspect player for $6M, and took the risk that they would lose him to save this couple of million dollars. That's a great recipe for mediocrity, and lo and behold, that is exactly what the Jays have been. Now they have decided to become Miami north, we'll see how they fare with their offseason splash, but EE is more an example of sometimes average, throwaway players have a good year and make everyone look smarter than they really are.

Agreed. I wasn't saying it was a smart strategy by the Blue Jays. I was just blowing up the oft-repeated but false notion that the Reds or anyone else could have gotten Edwin Encarnacion for free. Whoever picked up Encarnacion was going to have to pay him millions of dollars. The Blue Jays went for him and it has paid off in spades.