MLB investigating region in PED war - ESPN

[wolfboy]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

Forget the players' union for a second, cause they would never let this happen.

But who on here would be in favor of Olympic-type penalties? Let's say 1 year ban (and allowance for team to void contract) for the first offense. Lifetime ban for the second?

I am just typing this up off the top of my head without a ton of deliberation, but I'm thinking it would be nice to have such a system. It seems to me that many players think the reward outweighs the risk under the current rules.

I would be in favor of that. As you said, the players' union would take to the streets with guns before they'd approve it though.

[AtomicDumpling]

I think the penalties are severe enough. The testing methods and testing frequencies are not good enough though. I think most players in MLB are clean in today's game. The few that are using PEDs are getting caught eventually. Hopefully the new HGH testing will clean up the game even more. The hard-core steroids that have the biggest benefit in terms of improving performance are easy to catch with current tests. It is the weak, subtle PEDs that sometimes slip through the cracks. I don't think PEDs are affecting the results on the field very much at all.

[hebroncougar]

I think you'll see some incredible shrinking players now that the HGH blood test is coming to MLB.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by hebroncougar

I think you'll see some incredible shrinking players now that the HGH blood test is coming to MLB.

I think you'll have a hard time finding a significant effect of HGH before and after testing.

[hebroncougar]

Originally Posted by jojo

I think you'll have a hard time finding a significant effect of HGH before and after testing.

Of course, people said that about 'roids too.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by hebroncougar

Of course, people said that about 'roids too.

HGH probably hurts baseball player performance more than it helps if used as a PED.

[757690]

Originally Posted by jojo

I think you'll have a hard time finding a significant effect of HGH before and after testing.

As someone who has taken both HGH and Steriods (at separate times) as prescribed by my doctors for health reasons, I can tell you you are very wrong about this.

Steroids made me significantly stronger and clearly would have been more effective as a performance enhancing drug, but HGH turned me into an overall better athlete. I lost nearly all of my body fat, gained muscle (not nearly as much as when on steroids, but it was noticeable) and was significantly quicker with my reflexes and faster as a runner. As soon as a stopped using HGH, I gained fat, lost muscle and became much less athletic. The before and after pics of me are striking in their differences.

Now, I imagine it would have less of an effect on a professional athlete, who was already in great shape, and already a great athlete, but I also imagine it would make some difference in their overall athletic ability. As a former HGH user, I can testify that it absolutely would enhance anyone's performance as a baseball player.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by 757690

As someone who has taken both HGH and Steriods (at separate times) as prescribed by my doctors for health reasons, I can tell you you are very wrong about this.

Steroids made me significantly stronger and clearly would have been more effective as a performance enhancing drug, but HGH turned me into an overall better athlete. I lost nearly all of my body fat, gained muscle (not nearly as much as when on steroids, but it was noticeable) and was significantly quicker with my reflexes and faster as a runner. As soon as a stopped using HGH, I gained fat, lost muscle and became much less athletic. The before and after pics of me are striking in their differences.

Now, I imagine it would have less of an effect on a professional athlete, who was already in great shape, and already a great athlete, but I also imagine it would make some difference in their overall athletic ability. As a former HGH user, I can testify that it absolutely would enhance anyone's performance as a baseball player.

HGH will induce increases in muscle mass but it's not conducive to the types of muscle function that helps baseball players and it causes an increase in mass that isn't simply due to an increase in fiber size (i.e. the mass doesn't necessarily cause the functional changes that would be considered ideal). Also it's effects on bone growth aren't really conducive to the types of athletic moves required for baseball. A person who is already in the 99th percentile athletically and at their peak athletic age (early 20's to early 30's) would be silly to take HGH. To the extent that HGH actually improves the performance of professional baseball players, it is pecking at the margins and carrying a disproportionate set of risks that makes it's use as a PED a game of diminishing returns.

You did more than stop taking HGH. You also stopped doing whatever you were doing to effect the change in body composition.

[Cedric]

Originally Posted by jojo

HGH will induce increases in muscle mass but it's not conducive to the types of muscle function that helps baseball players and it causes an increase in mass that isn't simply due to an increase in fiber size (i.e. the mass doesn't necessarily cause the functional changes that would be considered ideal). Also it's effects on bone growth aren't really conducive to the types of athletic moves required for baseball. A person who is already in the 99th percentile athletically and at their peak athletic age (early 20's to early 30's) would be silly to take HGH. To the extent that HGH actually improves the performance of professional baseball players, it is pecking at the margins and carrying a disproportionate set of risks that makes it's use as a PED a game of diminishing returns.

You did more than stop taking HGH. You also stopped doing whatever you were doing to effect the change in body composition.

Does the confidence that PED's give a player matter in this type of discussion. I'm not sure what others think, throwing that out there.

[757690]

Originally Posted by jojo

HGH will induce increases in muscle mass but it's not conducive to the types of muscle function that helps baseball players and it causes an increase in mass that isn't simply due to an increase in fiber size (i.e. the mass doesn't necessarily cause the functional changes that would be considered ideal). Also it's effects on bone growth aren't really conducive to the types of athletic moves required for baseball. A person who is already in the 99th percentile athletically and at their peak athletic age (early 20's to early 30's) would be silly to take HGH. To the extent that HGH actually improves the performance of professional baseball players, it is pecking at the margins and carrying a disproportionate set of risks that makes it's use as a PED a game of diminishing returns.

You did more than stop taking HGH. You also stopped doing whatever you were doing to effect the change in body composition.

I became a much, much better baseball player when on HGH, then before, and then got worse afterwards. My swing and bat speed was amazingly quicker after taking it. I actually had to adjust my whole hitting approach because I was now pulling everything. It wasn't about being stronger, it was about being quicker and more athletic.

I agree that for professional baseball players, the difference wouldn't be as big, but baseball is game of inches and milliseconds. Every little bit matters. Like I said, it's not the same as with steroids, but it definitely is a performance enhancer.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by jojo

HGH will induce increases in muscle mass but it's not conducive to the types of muscle function that helps baseball players and it causes an increase in mass that isn't simply due to an increase in fiber size (i.e. the mass doesn't necessarily cause the functional changes that would be considered ideal). Also it's effects on bone growth aren't really conducive to the types of athletic moves required for baseball. A person who is already in the 99th percentile athletically and at their peak athletic age (early 20's to early 30's) would be silly to take HGH. To the extent that HGH actually improves the performance of professional baseball players, it is pecking at the margins and carrying a disproportionate set of risks that makes it's use as a PED a game of diminishing returns.

You did more than stop taking HGH. You also stopped doing whatever you were doing to effect the change in body composition.

In a game like baseball where a hundredth of a second can change the complete outcome of an at bat, even the smallest advantage is a big deal. Plus, where are you getting this info from?

[jojo]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

In a game like baseball where a hundredth of a second can change the complete outcome of an at bat, even the smallest advantage is a big deal. Plus, where are you getting this info from?

Get on Pubmed.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by jojo

Get on Pubmed.

Care to link to your source?

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

In a game like baseball where a hundredth of a second can change the complete outcome of an at bat, even the smallest advantage is a big deal. Plus, where are you getting this info from?

Every sport is like that

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Every sport is like that

Which is why PEDs are so widespread.