Fay: Rolen wants to play - do you want him back?

[Vottomatic]

Seems like it's simply a situation of numbers.

3 third basemen. Why? All righthanded.
1 lefthanded bat off the bench - Paul. Have to have it.

I don't see any logical room for him. Sure, you want to mess up the typical depth, then bring him back. But Frazier has been given the starting position, so it's simply a matter of the bench.

12 pitchers
8 position starters

C - Mez
3B - Hannahan
SS - Donald
CF - Heisey
OF/LH bat - Paul

With all the concern about Choo and Bruce manning CF, Heisey is the best backup option there.
Paul is the LH bat off the bench.
Hannahan is making pretty good money for a backup.
Rolen doesn't play SS, so it's Donald.

I don't see how it happens.

I agree with Kal Daniels. Gentleman's agreement that if Hannahan or Frazier get injured, Rolen gets signed. He stays in shape and rests his body until needed.

And then there's the money. Play for the Reds for cheap or go to L.A. for good money?

[Boss-Hog]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

Seems like it's simply a situation of numbers.

3 third basemen. Why? All righthanded.

Hannahan is left handed.

[Nathan]

Not so much that I don't want him back, it's just I don't know what they would do if they did bring him back. Between Rolen and Hannahan, they're redundant.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

I don't see the Reds paying Jack Hanahan $1MM to play in AAA while paying Rolen a few million as well. But if Rolen signs, the Reds look like this:

Locks (12)
C Hanigan (R)
1B Votto (L)
2B Phillips (R)
SS Cozart (R)
3B Frazier (R)
RF Bruce (L)
CF Choo (L)
LF Ludwick (R)
~~~~
C Mesoraco (R)
OF Heisey (R)
IF Donald (R) - only backup SS on the 40 man
3B Rolen (R) - IF SIGNED

That leaves one bench spot and no lefties on the bench. The options are Hannahan, Paul and Henry Rodriguez. So, do you send down the guy you just signed to backup 3B and whose primary asset is his glove or do you send down the OF who "earned" a spot in limited time last year.

Personally, if they signed Rolen, I'd still carry Hannahan and send down Paul. Firstly, Paul and Hannahan are basically the same hitter; Paul just had a small sample BABIP blip in 2012. So the difference between them is glove value and flexibility.

Because Frazier can play a credible OF, I think carrying Hannahan wins on two fronts. Firstly, he's a step up defensively from Rolen too at this point. So he still makes sense as late inning sub. Paul is an average OF defensively and a step down from Heisey. Having Hannhan lets you keep him available on the bench while starting Rolen and given Dusty the option to use an all RH OF against a really tough lefty. Frazier is also free to play 1B if needed. He'd still be the primary 3B, but it gives you more options.

All things considered, given that its not my money, I'd take Rolen over Paul in a heartbeat, knowing that the on field difference is less significant than the value of having Rolen in the clubhouse. However, I'm not sure if Paul has an option. If he does, problem solved. If not, he may not clear waivers and that would leave the 40 man light on OF.

My thoughts exactly. The DL could be our friend in a case like this. May I just add, that if any 4 of the 8 starting spots go down for an extended period, the team is better with Rolen/Hannahan platooning at 3B and Frazier moving to the vacated spot than they would be with Paul or even Heisey playing every day.

[reds44]

I'm shocked there's so much opposition to this. This should be pretty simple, assuming he's okay with being a backup to Frazier it should be an easy yes.

Old, bad Rolen: .245/.318/.398/.716
Hanrahan: .244/.312/.341/.654
Donald: .202/.246/.282/.529

Also, considering Frazier can play 3rd, 1st, and left it makes it possible you can carry 3 third baseman.

Again, assuming he is willing to accept a part time role, it's an easy yes. If not, he can go to LA.

Hanigan
Votto
Phillips
Cozart
Frazier
Ludwick
Bruce
Choo
Heisey
Rolen
Mesoraco
Paul
Hanrahan

If you think the Reds need a backup MIF (a valid point), then I'd get rid of Hanrahan before Rolen.

[757690]

I know they won't do this, but they could always go with 11 pitchers, as another way to fit Rolen into the roster. I've never seen the need for 12 anyway.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Not so much that I don't want him back, it's just I don't know what they would do if they did bring him back. Between Rolen and Hannahan, they're redundant.

Not really, they are perfect complements to each other in a platoon that would OPS in the .750 range if platooned properly (while playing stellar defense at 3B). If Bruce, Votto or Ludwick go down (the 3, 4, or 5 hitters) I want that platoon on the bench ready to step in (with Frazier moving around defensively). Its a way better option than Heisey, Paul or Hannahan playing every day or even being mixed and matched.

[camisadelgolf]

At RedsFest, Dusty said that even if Rolen returns, it's Frazier time to start on Opening Day.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by reds44

I'm shocked there's so much opposition to this. This should be pretty simple, assuming he's okay with being a backup to Frazier it should be an easy yes.

Old, bad Rolen: .245/.318/.398/.716
Hanrahan: .244/.312/.341/.654
Donald: .202/.246/.282/.529

Also, considering Frazier can play 3rd, 1st, and left it makes it possible you can carry 3 third baseman.

Again, assuming he is willing to accept a part time role, it's an easy yes. If not, he can go to LA.

Not so simple.

Hannahan hit righties last year almost as well as Rolen. Hannahan is healthier. Hannahan is reputedly a superb fielder, not sure Rolen still is at this stage.

Donald is irrelevant, he plays a different position than Scott. The two are not competing.

Having three third basemen on a team with a five man bench is a bad idea. Bench will totally lack versatility. And won't Frazier be a better third baseman with steady play at one position?

It's not an easy yes. And on top of everything, there's the salary factor. How much are you going to pay Rolen? If he takes a fifty percent cut it's three million. He probably won't and it's still too expensive if he does.

The fit is not there anymore, unless Scott is willing to bide some time getting ready. As a mid-season replacement at a low price, it makes some sense.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

At RedsFest, Dusty said that even if Rolen returns, it's Frazier time to start on Opening Day.

Sure, I don't think Rolen taking tme from Frazier is the question here. I think the question is whether we'd rather have Rolen getting starts over Heisey, Paul or Donald if one of the corner guys go down. I'll take Rolen over those guys.

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by mth123

Sure, I don't think Rolen taking tme from Frazier is the question here. I think the question is whether we'd rather have Rolen getting starts over Heisey, Paul or Donald if one of the corner guys go down. I'll take Rolen over those guys.

Me, too--especially since I believe Frazier is a better left fielder than he is a third baseman.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

Me, too--especially since I believe Frazier is a better left fielder than he is a third baseman.

Amen!!!

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Not so simple.

Hannahan hit righties last year almost as well as Rolen. Hannahan is healthier. Hannahan is reputedly a superb fielder, not sure Rolen still is at this stage.

Donald is irrelevant, he plays a different position than Scott. The two are not competing.

Having three third basemen on a team with a five man bench is a bad idea. Bench will totally lack versatility. And won't Frazier be a better third baseman with steady play at one position?

It's not an easy yes. And on top of everything, there's the salary factor. How much are you going to pay Rolen? If he takes a fifty percent cut it's three million. He probably won't and it's still too expensive if he does.

The fit is not there anymore, unless Scott is willing to bide some time getting ready. As a mid-season replacement at a low price, it makes some sense.

Wirhout Rolen you are looking at a Hannahan/Donald platoon at 3B if Frazier or Votto goes down. You're looking at too much Heisey if Bruce or Ludwick goes down. i think a Hannahan/Rolen platoon at 3B is a better option should any of those 4 guys go down.

[camisadelgolf]

In the event that all the position players are healthy, Rolen's going to Xavier Paul a roster spot as far as I see it. You hate to lose the lefty off the bench, but Heisey has hit significantly better against rhp than lhp so far in his career anyway.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by mth123

Wirhout Rolen you are looking at a Hannahan/Donald platoon at 3B if Frazier or Votto goes down. You're looking at too much Heisey if Bruce or Ludwick goes down. i think a Hannahan/Rolen platoon at 3B is a better option should any of those 4 guys go down.

We just don't agree on this. I don't see Rolen as viable insurance for injuries, he's so often hurt himself. If Frazier has to move to a different position, I'm comfortable with Hannahan playing third most days. He's a superb fielder and can hit righties passably.

The team finally has some lefty-righty balance. All positions are covered, with backups, assuming they resolve the Donald-Izturis thing.

It's time to move on. The Reds don't need three thirdbasemen. They don't need Frazier playing super utility, it's time for him to stick at third.

And there's no substitute for Heisey - with or without Rolen - Chris is the only bona fide CFer on the ballclub. His replacement, if injured, will come from the minors. And Xman provides that extra lefty on the bench, which the Reds can use. He hit righties quite well last year.

So we just don't agree on this, but ultimately I think the sticking point will not be any of these factors. It will likely be money.