Fay: Rolen wants to play - do you want him back?

[Captain Hook]

After seeing the arguments that the Reds aren't a better team with Rolen I'm just not convinced. IMO the only reason you don't bring him back at this point is if he wants more the 3 or 4 million and thinks he should start most days. So far I haven't seen anything indicating that either of those things are a true with Rolen. He has to know he can't start often over extended periods of time and that the Reds can't afford a big chunk of cash for his services but it seems he still insist he wants to be on the team. I like that and I like Rolen along with what he could potentially give the team on the field. To me, it's not a matter of if a deal gets done as much as when it gets done.

[mth123]

Paul had a whopping 92 PAs against RHP in 2012 with a .385 BABIP. Journeyman AAAA player. He's ok as a 25th man.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by mth123

Paul had a whopping 92 PAs against RHP in 2012 with a .385 BABIP. Journeyman AAAA player. He's ok as a 25th man.

Yes. There's some chance he will continue to hit RHP well. Also a chance he will fall off.

If Paul falls off the Reds should look for another LH hitter in a minor trade, or on the waiver wire. Or they can try the minors. Fellhauer is a good lefty hitter to try for the bench, if he is ready.

But I wouldn't sign Rolen to go north out of spring training.

He's frequently injured. He creates an overload at one position. He hits righty. And if there's a major injury, and if Frazier comes off third, Hannahan is the primary replacement.

Yes, 30 percent of the time, in the long-term injury scenario, the Reds will need a righty platoon at third base. I'll take my chances that the Reds can fill that limited role if it happens.

I like the current balance. I would prefer to avoid oft injured players. Admire Rolen, but would prefer to go in a different direction now.

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Paul had an .867 OPS against righties last year. He hits righties well.

These are not the same thing. He's a 28 year old with less than a full season of PA vR. And against those righties, he's hit .275/.320/.393. That .713 OPS is a better estimate of his ability to hit RHP than last year's .867 in 83 PA when he had a .385 BABIP.

If we're talking his skill, which is what we would project him to hit vR in 2013, we would project something closer to .713. ZiPS, for example, projects him at .261/.311/.404 given 335 PA. That's a useful bench bat, but not somebody you worry about losing, especially given that Jack Hannahan's projects aren't that far off and that Rolen brings intangible value that Paul can't touch.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by Brisco

I was not aware of this quote and it changes the way I view the situation dramatically.

In a thread on the Deck, I talked about Rolen's leadership being in the elite category, but I had a concern that his leadership may depend on his self-image as a successful ballplayer. This fungos quote confirms that to me.

If you have a great "charge the hill" type leader under a calm, unflappable stay the course type manager like Baker, younger and/or leadable players will over-achieve, like in 2010. (This is the leadership model militaries have often used... the fiery Sergeant and the calm, collected Commander). However, if that charge the hill clubhouse leader loses the skills that give him his confidence and gusto, his own frustration/depression can spread like wildfire to the impressionable, even if he is seldom playing.

This caused me to look into last year closer. Rolen's first three monthly OPS's were .579, .427 & .590. After Votto was injured, Rolen stepped up and OPSd .922 and .925 in July and August. Once Votto returned his OPS plummeted to .545 in September.

Prior to this, I thought, like everyone else, this huge swing was caused by health issues. Now I wonder. I wonder if the older, more broken down Scott is the type who can only elevate his game when it falls on him to lead others...

I am starting to think that Rolen as a back-up is a .550 OPS player... Scott maybe just can't be a #2... (he said he would never be a coach, but I am guessing he could see himself as a manager.) Worse, I am concerned that if Rolen gets frustrated and/or depressed based on his lack of ability and opportunity to perform, this will affect other players in the clubhouse. Votto, great player that he is, is too emotionally vulnerable to avoid being affected by watching his mentor mentally fall apart before his eyes.

Just my 2 cents.

Brisco

Brisco.. not sure if that was your first ORG post, but it was a dandy. An aspect none of us looked at in quite that context.


hey. I just hit 12,500 posts... prolly should quit while i am ahead.. of whatever it is i am ahead of.

[Gary Redus]

Brisco's comments suggest a return to the mystical "chemistry" question. It seems to me the Walt Jockety has a strong track records of figuring these issues out. It will be interesting to see what he does.

[Revering4Blue]

Originally Posted by Brisco

I was not aware of this quote and it changes the way I view the situation dramatically.

In a thread on the Deck, I talked about Rolen's leadership being in the elite category, but I had a concern that his leadership may depend on his self-image as a successful ballplayer. This fungos quote confirms that to me.

If you have a great "charge the hill" type leader under a calm, unflappable stay the course type manager like Baker, younger and/or leadable players will over-achieve, like in 2010. (This is the leadership model militaries have often used... the fiery Sergeant and the calm, collected Commander). However, if that charge the hill clubhouse leader loses the skills that give him his confidence and gusto, his own frustration/depression can spread like wildfire to the impressionable, even if he is seldom playing.

This caused me to look into last year closer. Rolen's first three monthly OPS's were .579, .427 & .590. After Votto was injured, Rolen stepped up and OPSd .922 and .925 in July and August. Once Votto returned his OPS plummeted to .545 in September.

Prior to this, I thought, like everyone else, this huge swing was caused by health issues. Now I wonder. I wonder if the older, more broken down Scott is the type who can only elevate his game when it falls on him to lead others...

I am starting to think that Rolen as a back-up is a .550 OPS player... Scott maybe just can't be a #2... (he said he would never be a coach, but I am guessing he could see himself as a manager.) Worse, I am concerned that if Rolen gets frustrated and/or depressed based on his lack of ability and opportunity to perform, this will affect other players in the clubhouse. Votto, great player that he is, is too emotionally vulnerable to avoid being affected by watching his mentor mentally fall apart before his eyes.

Just my 2 cents.

Brisco

An outstanding post. What more can I say.

NeilHambuger, a former sundecker, as well, also deserves a for sharing with us his post in which Brisco was responding to.

Not to get too far off topic, but this is another fine example of why merging the boards was/is a great idea.

[Red Swagger]

Best case scenario:

Reds offer Rolen a minor league deal and he accepts, or we offer major league money, but no 40 man roster spot. See how ST goes

OR

Sign Rolen for 2 M or less, and try and sneak X Paul or Donald to AAA, preferably X Paul. Donald is due for a bounce back year in 2013

Remember the Reds have Feliz Perez in AAA, LH OF from Cuba, hit .301 last year, hit well in winter leagues, he will be called up at some point in 2013, he could fill X Paul's role easily. If it came down to it, keep Donald over Paul.

Rolen makes our bench better, plain and simple.

Our bench would be:

Heisey
Mesoraco
Hannahan
Donald
Rolen

AAA depth:

H Rodriguez
Izturis
X Paul
M Olivo
E Burriss
Negron
N Soto
Felix Perez
Phipps

[SweetLou1990]

I love Scotty Rolen, he is a ballplayer.
But, who would the backup 3rd baseman be? Both backups can not get playing time. It has to be Hannahan. how do you even give any playing time to Rolen, it would purely be a bat off of the bench for something in the 3 mil range?

THe biggest need on the team is to get a middle infielder.

[MartyFan]

I think it depends on what he wants his role to be AND what role the Reds see for him in the future with the organization (if any).

If the Reds believe he is a potential manager, then sign him up for another year in a reduced role on the field.

If they don't or they question if he can add value to the organization in that capacity, then I say let him go to LA or wherever else will pay him to play.

I DO NOT think he is necessary considering the way the roster has been improved this off season.

[goreds2]

During a break on MLB Network, they just announced this.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-this-weekend/

Reds GM Walt Jocketty hopes for resolution on Scott Rolen as soon as this weekend:

We heard yesterday that veteran third baseman Scott Rolen was leaning toward returning for another season, but it’s not clear whether he’ll do so as a member of the Reds. We might not have to wait much longer to find out.

According to Mark Sheldon of MLB.com, Reds general manager Walt Jocketty said today that Rolen’s status is “still up in the air,” but that he’s hoping to “get it resolved this weekend.” Just where he’d fit on the Reds’ roster is unknown, but Jocketty said his role would be determined during spring training.

Rolen would almost certainly have to take a backseat to Todd Frazier after he batted just .245/.318/.398 with eight home runs, 39 RBI and a .716 OPS over 92 games last season. The Dodgers have also expressed interest in him this winter and could present a better opportunity and quite possibly, a more lucrative offer.

[Raisor]

Originally Posted by TRF

hey. I just hit 12,500 posts... prolly should quit while i am ahead.. of whatever it is i am ahead of.

Half of those posts were you telling me I was an idiot.

If Rolen will take a million bucks with the understanding he may get one start a week, and a gold watch at the end of the year, I say go for it. Anything else and I hope he enjoys his future endevers.

[757690]

Originally Posted by goreds2

During a break on MLB Network, they just announced this.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-this-weekend/

Reds GM Walt Jocketty hopes for resolution on Scott Rolen as soon as this weekend:

We heard yesterday that veteran third baseman Scott Rolen was leaning toward returning for another season, but it’s not clear whether he’ll do so as a member of the Reds. We might not have to wait much longer to find out.

According to Mark Sheldon of MLB.com, Reds general manager Walt Jocketty said today that Rolen’s status is “still up in the air,” but that he’s hoping to “get it resolved this weekend.” Just where he’d fit on the Reds’ roster is unknown, but Jocketty said his role would be determined during spring training.

Rolen would almost certainly have to take a backseat to Todd Frazier after he batted just .245/.318/.398 with eight home runs, 39 RBI and a .716 OPS over 92 games last season. The Dodgers have also expressed interest in him this winter and could present a better opportunity and quite possibly, a more lucrative offer.

Thanks

Reading between the lines, it seems like the Reds want Rolen to come to ST to fight for a backup job with no guarantees. I imagine he's deciding between that and a guaranteed job with the Dodgers, probably for more money too.

[smixsell]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

Geez. I am a huge Rolen fan, but I think he waited wayyyyy too long to announce his desire to return, and the signing of Hannahan makes it clear to me the Reds didn't think he was going to return.

Pre-Hannahan signing, I would have jumped all over re-signing Rolen. But with Hannahan already signed for a good amount, and the Reds maxed out on payroll........and now a logjam of players who pretty much only play 3B, excluding the penciled in starter, Frazier, who can also play LF..........WHERE.......Ludwick was signed for a pretty penny to start everyday. It is pretty obvious the 25-man roster is decided and now Scott wants them to "fit him in" somehow. As a person and experienced hitter, I would love to have Scott's bat off the bench. But I'm not crazy about foregoing a LH bat off the bench in Paul.

And Rolen only plays 3B. Only. Pretty much the same with Hannahan.

It's a sad dilemma but I don't think the Reds should make room for Rolen.

I'd offer him a coaching position. And tell him he'll be the first one considered if Frazier or Hannahan go down with injury longterm. That's the only way I deal with Rolen.

You nailed it IMO Vottomatic.

Plus, I still gan't get the spectre out of my mind of Dusty starting Scotty over Frazier whenever Scotty is healthy enough to play. It gives me the heeebeee geeeebeeees. <shaking and shivering while I say that>

PS I think Todd is the future for the Reds at 3B for a LONG time. I'm really high on him as a hitter AND as a third sacker.

[malcontent]

Originally Posted by smixsell

PS I think Todd is the future for the Reds at 3B for a LONG time. I'm really high on him as a hitter AND as a third sacker.

Hopefully Baker lets him play regularly....and at 3B, where he has a chance to be more than serviceable defensively.

I've never understood all this Frazier to LF talk. One more reason why I hope they don't re-sign Rolen.