Reds sign C Miguel Olivo

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Personally, I kinda hope they ditch the whole personal catcher thing. Both guys need to catch ALL of the pitchers IMO.

I thought it was interesting in the Hannigan interview that Hannigan says he only puts down a "1" (fastball) or "2" (Breaking ball) for Arroyo and let's Arroyo decide what flavor to throw. Of course, Hannigan is also determining the location, but it doesn't seem like it's that difficult to do. (Note, I'm not saying catching is easy, but Arroyo seems to do more of the "thinking work" than most pitchers do)

I'm sure all the pitchers prefer Hannigan, but maybe it would be best to use Hannigan on Chapman fulltime (since Chapman is the rawest) and share catchers for the others. All the other guys, even Leake should be experienced enough to shake off a bad sign.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Here is a guy who made $3.5 million last year, once hit 23 HRs in a MLB season ... and we have fans complaining about the fact he's getting a non-roster invite to spring training with absolutely no risk to the Reds. LOL.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Mesoraco was vastly superior of a hitter than Olivo was last year. Again, 2011-2012, 27 walks, 225 strikeouts. Think about that for a second.

As for what his staff did in 2011.... so what. Look at the metrics for pitch framing. It's poor. Look at his CS rate. It's poor. Can he call a decent game? I honestly don't know. But how much does that matter if he can't trick the umpire into calling balls strikes and is getting some strikes called balls?

This reminds me of people who said Ludwick was a bad signing last year. It turned out to be one of the best value signings in all of MLB. If you just looked at the two seasons Ludwick had before arriving with the Reds (2010-11) you could make it look like the guy was terrible. Fact of the matter is, he had two bad seasons, but his numbers in previous years (his Cardinal days) were much better than what his numbers in San Diego and Pittsburgh indicated.

Now, is Miguel Olivo on par with Ryan Ludwick? Of course not. But the Reds also aren't investing $2.5 million in Olivo like they did with Ludwick last year. The point is Olivo's numbers prior to the past two seasons were actually decent for a catcher. Not good by any means, but not bad for a catcher. And the Reds just signed him for absolutely nothing. There is no risk. People are so quick to discount the fact that Hanigan or Mesoraco (or both) could get hurt. If that happens, give me Olivo as a stop-gap over Corky Miller. I'm sure Walt feels the same way and that's why this move was made. Depth is good.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Love this signing. No, he's probably not going to take the job from Mesoraco, but what more can you ask for in a backup catcher on a minor league deal. 11 year veteran with pop in his bat. No, he doesn't have great defensive metrics and doesn't get on base at a high rate but if he did either of those things, he'd already be signed by someone else to a major league deal. At least if Hanigan or Mesoraco is injured, he's not going to be embarrassing out there.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

I'm sure all the pitchers prefer Hannigan, but maybe it would be best to use Hannigan on Chapman fulltime (since Chapman is the rawest) and share catchers for the others. All the other guys, even Leake should be experienced enough to shake off a bad sign.

ding ding!

totally agree with this. Hanigan can help Chapman in a lot of ways, framing may even be the least of them.

[Brisco]

I think this is more a statement about the maturity of Mesoraco than anything about Olivo.

It sure seems that drafting Grandal was the best thing the Reds ever did to light a fire under Mes... and when Grandal was traded away, Mes returned to mediocrity. Last year Mes was annointed as the catcher of the future... and then I seem to remember a few allegations that he didnt listen very well and that was the a contributing cause for his demotion.

Signing Olivo may be just a way for Jocketty to show Mes that the Reds are prepared to spend a season without him if he does not change his attitude/approach. If that is the case and it works to bring back the 2011 Mes... we will look at this as a great signing even if Olivo never does a darn thing on the field.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Last two seasons Olivo has 27 walks and 225 strikeouts. And a poor reputation as a defensive catcher. What is to like? He is atrocious at the plate and poor behind it.

Yeah, but Mes can't play 2 times a week all season the way he did last year. He totally tired down the stretch. Maybe this allows Mes to start out at one game per week and gradually increase his workload to twice a week, if he proves he has the endurance.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Yeah, but Mes can't play 2 times a week all season the way he did last year. He totally tired down the stretch. Maybe this allows Mes to start out at one game per week and gradually increase his workload to twice a week, if he proves he has the endurance.

You think Mesoraco is going to play one game per week? Dusty gets non-catchers more work than that.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

This reminds me of people who said Ludwick was a bad signing last year. It turned out to be one of the best value signings in all of MLB. If you just looked at the two seasons Ludwick had before arriving with the Reds (2010-11) you could make it look like the guy was terrible. Fact of the matter is, he had two bad seasons, but his numbers in previous years (his Cardinal days) were much better than what his numbers in San Diego and Pittsburgh indicated.

Now, is Miguel Olivo on par with Ryan Ludwick? Of course not. But the Reds also aren't investing $2.5 million in Olivo like they did with Ludwick last year. The point is Olivo's numbers prior to the past two seasons were actually decent for a catcher. Not good by any means, but not bad for a catcher. And the Reds just signed him for absolutely nothing. There is no risk. People are so quick to discount the fact that Hanigan or Mesoraco (or both) could get hurt. If that happens, give me Olivo as a stop-gap over Corky Miller. I'm sure Walt feels the same way and that's why this move was made. Depth is good.

It isn't like Ludwick at all. Ludwick has actually hit at some point in his career. Before last year, Ludwick had 5 seasons where he was an above-average hitter (OPS+). Miguel Olivo has one in 11 seasons and 10 of those were well below average to absolutely terrible.

Even if he is in AAA, I just don't know that there weren't better FA options on the market to platoon with Corky. Yes, we needed depth there. I just don't believe a terrible hitting, no glove catcher is the guy.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

It isn't like Ludwick at all. Ludwick has actually hit at some point in his career. Before last year, Ludwick had 5 seasons where he was an above-average hitter (OPS+). Miguel Olivo has one in 11 seasons and 10 of those were well below average to absolutely terrible.

Even if he is in AAA, I just don't know that there weren't better FA options on the market to platoon with Corky. Yes, we needed depth there. I just don't believe a terrible hitting, no glove catcher is the guy.

You keep saying "terrible hitter." Fact is, for a non-roster invitee to ST, you aren't going to find a better hitter than Olivo at the catcher position. It's fine that you think he's a terrible hitter, but for his position, he's actually not too bad. And I bet he provides some nice pop playing in our bandbox of a stadium.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

You keep saying "terrible hitter." Fact is, for a non-roster invitee to ST, you aren't going to find a better hitter than Olivo at the catcher position. It's fine that you think he's a terrible hitter, but for his position, he's actually not too bad. And I bet he provides some nice pop playing in our bandbox of a stadium.

Corky Miller is a better hitter than Olivo is. He has 11 years in the big leagues. One time he has posted an OBP over .292. Once. In 11 years. That isn't "actually not too bad for his position". It is terrible.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Corky Miller is a better hitter than Olivo is. He has 11 years in the big leagues. One time he has posted an OBP over .292. Once. In 11 years. That isn't "actually not too bad for his position". It is terrible.

LOL. You sure about that?

Corky Miller's career OPS in MLB: .570.

Miguel Olivo's career OPS in MLB: .693.

Also, I missed it the year when Corky had 23 HRs for a MLB team like Olivo did with Kansas City just FOUR YEARS AGO.

We can continue this argument if you would like. But your trainer is advising you to throw in the towel. It will end in TKO fashion. Corky Miller a better hitter than Miguel Olivo? Now I've heard it all.

[Patrick Bateman]

This is an easy one. The Reds feel Mesoraco is best served developing to start the season in AAA, especially with Hanigan in the majors with the starting gig.

Reds therefore needed a major league back-up catcher. Never a position with much out there. You get guys like Rod Barajas or Miguel Olivo. It is what it is. What back-up catchers were available for nothing that are better than Olivo? Olivo clearly sucks, but for lord's sake.... he is a back-up catcher. They basically all suck. The Reds wont be missing the playoffs because their backup catcher is not good enough. If Hanigan gets injured, Mes comes up and starts. Olivo will never sniff regular playing time.

This is not about the Reds feeling like Olivo is a superior player to Mes. It's about the way they are choosing to develop Mes. Mes will get his call-up when the Reds feel his development is best served in the major leagues getting partial playing time. The time for that is apparently not now.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

LOL. You sure about that?

Corky Miller's career OPS in MLB: .570.

Miguel Olivo's career OPS in MLB: .693.

Also, I missed it the year when Corky had 23 HRs for a MLB team like Olivo did with Kansas City just FOUR YEARS AGO.

We can continue this argument if you would like. But your trainer is advising you to throw in the towel. It will end in TKO fashion. Corky Miller a better hitter than Miguel Olivo? Now I've heard it all.

Miller knows how to get on base. Give me that guy over the guy who can't find first base without Google Maps who will occasionally hit for some power.

I know, I know, Miller has stunk up the joint in incredibly sparing time in the Majors. Don't care. He has a clue at the plate beyond "pitcher throws - swing as hard as possible no matter what".

[Blitz Dorsey]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Miller knows how to get on base. Give me that guy over the guy who can't find first base without Google Maps who will occasionally hit for some power.

I know, I know, Miller has stunk up the joint in incredibly sparing time in the Majors. Don't care. He has a clue at the plate beyond "pitcher throws - swing as hard as possible no matter what".

Doug, I like Corky too, but fact of the matter is even in the minors he's not a good hitter. That's why the Reds felt the need to go out and get more depth. They were not convinced Corky is a legit No. 3 option on the depth chart at catcher. They felt the same way last year and that's why they signed Dioner Navarro.

Corky had a decent year at the plate for Louisville last year (.740 OPS) but really struggled in 2011 at Louisville (.652). He didn't even get called up to the Majors either year. Corky has not played an MLB game since 2010 and will be 37 soon.

I know Olivo has struggled when given a starting job, but how can you honestly argue that he's not an upgrade over Corky Miller? Obviously the Reds' brass feels that Olivo is an upgrade or they wouldn't have signed him.