A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

[cumberlandreds]

I wonder how many fans the Astros will have to show up when the Reds go there in late September? I'm really doubting they win 40 games this season. IMO it's just pitiful for the fans that Astro ownership doesn't care enough to put a decent product on the field. At best this is a AAA team they will be putting on the field. It will serve the Astro managment right if they don't draw 800,000 this season.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

Relegate the Astros. They aren't a major league franchise. If you can't be bothered to field a major league product, you shouldn't get to be a major league team.

Say what you will about the Astros, and they are admittedly going to be awful, but they're making VERY good moves the past year or so. They're extremely young, but with solid upside at several key positions. They'll be horrific for a few years, but the return on the trades should see solid dividends.

This is pretty much what the Reds should've done a long time ago. Instead of actually "blowing it up" they made half measures and diddled around the edges. So they ended up with a crappy MLB team and a crappy farm system. Yea!

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by cumberlandreds

I wonder how many fans the Astros will have to show up when the Reds go there in late September? I'm really doubting they win 40 games this season. IMO it's just pitiful for the fans that Astro ownership doesn't care enough to put a decent product on the field. At best this is a AAA team they will be putting on the field. It will serve the Astro managment right if they don't draw 800,000 this season.

This guy will be there for sure.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Tornon

The Astros know what they're doing now.. they could be scary in a few years

The Astros are a shambles. There are those that just love a good "blow it up," and perhaps in some markets that can make a little more sense than doing it in a St. Louis type market. There is a lot of money to be made in Houston, yet the Astros seem content to play poor man's baseball. I think they are setting their franchise back for the entire decade, not just a few years.

[Unassisted]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

This guy will be there for sure.

I'll make the effort to get there for one of the games, but with a Monday-Wednesday series of night games and making the trip from 200 miles away, it's going to be tough to commit to three of them. But I'm counting on getting tickets below face value again.

[cumberlandreds]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

This guy will be there for sure.

I would think you could get front row tickets to see the Reds. If lived in Houston I would be there for a game.

[TRF]

I like Chris Carter... All he does is score touchdowns.

[lollipopcurve]

The Astros are a shambles. There are those that just love a good "blow it up," and perhaps in some markets that can make a little more sense than doing it in a St. Louis type market. There is a lot of money to be made in Houston, yet the Astros seem content to play poor man's baseball. I think they are setting their franchise back for the entire decade, not just a few years.

I wonder how well they're going to do under this new Crane ownership. The guy came in under a bit of a cloud, and I think getting him to move to the AL was contentious. You can argue the merits of a total tear down, but the only thing it guarantees is a low payroll.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by traderumor

The Astros are a shambles. There are those that just love a good "blow it up," and perhaps in some markets that can make a little more sense than doing it in a St. Louis type market. There is a lot of money to be made in Houston, yet the Astros seem content to play poor man's baseball. I think they are setting their franchise back for the entire decade, not just a few years.

Simply put, they really didn't have much of a choice. Their farm system was bare and the MLB club was horrid. Look at their farm system now. Well above average if not top 5 or 10. Keep drafting like they have the past 2 seasons and they'll be back.

Now granted, this is Keith Law, so take this with a big grain of salt....but his farm system rankings...
1. St. Louis Cardinals
2. Minnesota Twins
3. Tampa Bay Rays
4. Houston Astros
5. Chicago Cubs
6. San Diego Padres
7. Pittsburgh Pirates
8. Seattle Mariners
9. Texas Rangers
10. New York Yankees

Just a year ago they were around 29 or 30. ~edit~ I stand corrected, 27.

27. Houston Astros

The Astros might have been last if they hadn't traded Hunter Pence or Michael Bourn in July. Even though neither haul was that great, the prospects represented a major infusion into a barren system.

[CySeymour]

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

I understand the argument to be made for this, but to me this sounds like last winter when there were those who said the Reds could learn from the Marlins or Pirates.

Bad teams should be looking to add talent to their roster, not ditch all of it for prospects. Certainly there are times when you want to fill out your system with talented prospects. But you can't trade ALL of your major league players for prospects.

Who do you want them add? They don't have limited ML ready talent to offer in trades, and wasting draft picks on free agent pickups really doesn't make sense. By the time they are contenders, Lowrie may not even be an everyday player any longer. They are doing what they need to. In fact, their biggest mistake was not moving the bigger contracts sooner then they did.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by Unassisted

I'll make the effort to get there for one of the games, but with a Monday-Wednesday series of night games and making the trip from 200 miles away, it's going to be tough to commit to three of them. But I'm counting on getting tickets below face value again.

I hear ya. It's not an easy drive (SA that is). But I'd say it's certain you'll get them cheap. :O)

Originally Posted by cumberlandreds

I would think you could get front row tickets to see the Reds. If lived in Houston I would be there for a game.

I plan on being there for all 3. And yeah, front row by the dugout. It might be my last chance of seeing my Reds in a LONG while.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

I wonder how well they're going to do under this new Crane ownership. The guy came in under a bit of a cloud, and I think getting him to move to the AL was contentious. You can argue the merits of a total tear down, but the only thing it guarantees is a low payroll.

True. But a good sign for them is Crane is putting money into the farm system that was largely ignored for over 10 years with the prior owners. All they did was gut player after player for getting aging vets. They hung around longer than I thought they would, but this collapse was easy to predict a long way away. The fact that they're dealing with it correctly now is a positive sign here. Surprisingly, most of the 'stros fans here are pleasantly optimistic for the future. And realistic enough to know they're going to suck immensely this year and next for sure.

[lollipopcurve]

But a good sign for them is Crane is putting money into the farm system

The way the draft and international signings are cost-controlled now, there's only so much he can spend. They won't be getting extra picks for top tier free agents (they don't have that kind of talent on the roster), and so far they have not been reported as contenders for the free agents whose contracts would be exempt from the international signings cap (such as older Cuban guys). Time will tell, but it appears their only hope is to do what the Rays did -- lose like crazy for a few years and gather excellent talent at the top of the draft. The draft being something of a crapshoot, it may not work out for them. I'm not saying their approach is flawed -- I'm saying it carries risk (several consecutive seasons of 90+ losses can dim that optimism right quick and make fans hard to bring back, even when their minor league starts to surface).

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by traderumor

The Astros are a shambles. There are those that just love a good "blow it up," and perhaps in some markets that can make a little more sense than doing it in a St. Louis type market. There is a lot of money to be made in Houston, yet the Astros seem content to play poor man's baseball. I think they are setting their franchise back for the entire decade, not just a few years.

Houston is the 5th largest metro area in the United States (ahead of places like Washington DC, Atlanta, Miami and Boston) with a population of over 6 million. They (unlike New York, Chicago and LA -- 3 of the 4 cities ahead of them on that list) have no competition in their market from other ballclubs and a new-ish indoor facility at their disposal.

There's absolutely no reason why this franchise should be spending less than $90-$100 million on payroll annually. The idea that "we're rebuilding" is an excuse to drop payroll to the sub-$30m level is, frankly, a joke. You can engage in player development, smart drafting and smart trading while still paying some FAs to put a competitive ballclub on the field.

[CySeymour]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

There's absolutely no reason why this franchise should be spending less than $90-$100 million on payroll annually. The idea that "we're rebuilding" is an excuse to drop payroll to the sub-$30m level is, frankly, a joke. You can engage in player development, smart drafting and smart trading while still paying some FAs to put a competitive ballclub on the field.

Again, who do you want them to spend that much money on? That team's farm system was a mess, so signing free agents and losing draft picks makes zero sense. And their higher priced vets had reached the point where they were way past their prime.