A's acquire Jed Lowrie from Astros

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

Bad teams should be looking to add talent to their roster, not ditch all of it for prospects. Certainly there are times when you want to fill out your system with talented prospects. But you can't trade ALL of your major league players for prospects.

The Astros likely added more talent to their roster than they gave up.

Lowrie was more established to be sure, but he's not the answer going forward.

Better to cash that chip while he still had some value.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

The way the draft and international signings are cost-controlled now, there's only so much he can spend. They won't be getting extra picks for top tier free agents (they don't have that kind of talent on the roster), and so far they have not been reported as contenders for the free agents whose contracts would be exempt from the international signings cap (such as older Cuban guys). Time will tell, but it appears their only hope is to do what the Rays did -- lose like crazy for a few years and gather excellent talent at the top of the draft. The draft being something of a crapshoot, it may not work out for them. I'm not saying their approach is flawed -- I'm saying it carries risk (several consecutive seasons of 90+ losses can dim that optimism right quick and make fans hard to bring back, even when their minor league starts to surface).

True, I phrased that poorly. He's focusing his attention on the farm system. He's dealing any and all assets to refill the farm. He's not dealing to fill the Astros roster with cheap alternatives. The priority isn't to save money, it's to fill the farm with talent. So if you look at the MLB roster, it looks like they're an absolute shambles...dig deeper. The talent infusion they've taken on in the past year and a half is quite impressive.

[dougdirt]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/ey...r-brad-peacock

Turns out that Brad Peacock had already started his 32 hour drive to Arizona for ST when he got the call that he had been traded to Houston. Who has their ST in Florida. Fortunately, he was only about 8 hours into his drive and was able to turn around to drive to Florida..... only about 2.5 hours from where he lives, for Astros ST.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by CySeymour

Again, who do you want them to spend that much money on? That team's farm system was a mess, so signing free agents and losing draft picks makes zero sense. And their higher priced vets had reached the point where they were way past their prime.

It's not asking much to at least try and win more than 34% of your games. The build and burn mentality's a little cheap for a team that has plenty of resources to develop without embarrassing themselves in the process.

[JayStubbs]

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

The moved Lowrie at the exact right time, IMO.

I agree. But they didn't really didn't get much for him. None of the guys they got will ever be much more the roster fillers. Smart to trade him, but I think they could have done a lot better.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by CySeymour

Again, who do you want them to spend that much money on? That team's farm system was a mess, so signing free agents and losing draft picks makes zero sense. And their higher priced vets had reached the point where they were way past their prime.

Then don't sign a Type A free agent -- there were loads of other FAs that wouldn't require giving up a draft pick that would at least make the team more competitive while they rebuild.

[Revering4Blue]

Originally Posted by JayStubbs

I agree. But they didn't really didn't get much for him. None of the guys they got will ever be much more the roster fillers. Smart to trade him, but I think they could have done a lot better.

I dunno.

Carter could well hit 30 dingers playing in Minute Maid. Plus, if Carlos Pena rebounds with a big year - a big if, I know - Pena could be then dealt for more assets, while Carter and Wallace - alternating as DH -keep first base warm for Singleton and Freiman, though Singleton could move to the OF.

Peacock, even though he didn't have a good 2012 season, was still the top ranked A's pitching prospect, and should at least pan out as a solid pen arm.

Stassi was the top rated A's catching prospect.

That sounds like a good haul to me.

The wild card in this deal is Rodriguez, who stands to benefit greatly from a move to a pitcher's park.

[CySeymour]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

Then don't sign a Type A free agent -- there were loads of other FAs that wouldn't require giving up a draft pick that would at least make the team more competitive while they rebuild.

And use money that would be better of spent in player development? No thanks.

[JayStubbs]

Originally Posted by Revering4Blue

I dunno.

Carter could well hit 30 dingers playing in Minute Maid. Plus, if Carlos Pena rebounds with a big year - a big if, I know - Pena could be then dealt for more assets, while Carter and Wallace - alternating as DH -keep first base warm for Singleton and Freiman, though Singleton could move to the OF.

Peacock, even though he didn't have a good 2012 season, was still the top ranked A's pitching prospect, and should at least pan out as a solid pen arm.

Stassi was the top rated A's catching prospect.

That sounds like a good haul to me.

The wild card in this deal is Rodriguez, who stands to benefit greatly from a move to a pitcher's park.

For me, a DH, a relief pitcher and a backup catcher are all roster filler. These pieces can be picked up rather cheaply off the waiver wire these days.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by CySeymour

And use money that would be better of spent in player development? No thanks.

Seriously?

Here are the payrolls for the franchises that play in other similarly-sized markets to Houston (from 2012):

1. New York (Yankees: 198 / Mets: 93)
2. Los Angeles (Angels: 154 / Dodgers: 95)
3. Chicago (White Sox: 96 / Cubs 88)
4. Texas Rangers: 120
5. Houston: Projected 2013 25 million
6. Philadelphia: 174
7. Washington DC: 81

You're seriously suggesting that Houston is going to dump ~$60-$70m (the amount it would take to bring them into the same universe as their fellow large-market mates) into PLAYER DEVELOPMENT?

To do what? Train all their A prospects on solid gold weight benches?

Every other team on that list is running minor league systems, drafting players, making international signings, paying coaches/instructors, etc. in addition to paying out their ML payroll. To suggest that the Astros can't afford to sign enough players to field a competitive, non-100 loss team while building a farm system is ludicrous.

This is exactly why other sports have salary floors or a relegation/promotion system -- because the Astros are jobbing their fans and upsetting the competitive balance of the league (think the AL West won't be a heavy favorite to send 3 teams to the post-season with this whipping boy in their back pocket all year?) by just being cheap.

And, to make it more insulting, they're doing it in a market that should afford them the resources to be competitive AND building for the future at the same time.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

Seriously?

Here are the payrolls for the franchises that play in other similarly-sized markets to Houston (from 2012):

1. New York (Yankees: 198 / Mets: 93)
2. Los Angeles (Angels: 154 / Dodgers: 95)
3. Chicago (White Sox: 96 / Cubs 88)
4. Texas Rangers: 120
5. Houston: Projected 2013 25 million
6. Philadelphia: 174
7. Washington DC: 81

You're seriously suggesting that Houston is going to dump ~$60-$70m (the amount it would take to bring them into the same universe as their fellow large-market mates) into PLAYER DEVELOPMENT?

To do what? Train all their A prospects on solid gold weight benches?

Every other team on that list is running minor league systems, drafting players, making international signings, paying coaches/instructors, etc. in addition to paying out their ML payroll. To suggest that the Astros can't afford to sign enough players to field a competitive, non-100 loss team while building a farm system is ludicrous.

This is exactly why other sports have salary floors or a relegation/promotion system -- because the Astros are jobbing their fans and upsetting the competitive balance of the league (think the AL West won't be a heavy favorite to send 3 teams to the post-season with this whipping boy in their back pocket all year?) by just being cheap.

And, to make it more insulting, they're doing it in a market that should afford them the resources to be competitive AND building for the future at the same time.

So you're thinking they should dive into the FA market to make the MLB team competitive right now, correct?

Bobby Abreu
Rod Barajas
Jason Bartlett
Michael Bourn
Dallas Braden
Miguel Cairo
Jose Contreras
Todd Coffey
Francisco Cordero
Johnny Damon
Chone Figgins
Jason Giambi
Kevin Gregg
Willie Harris
Livan Hernandez
Orlando Hudson
Aubrey Huff
Brandon Inge
Jason Isringhausen
Bobby Jenks
Adam Kennedy
Casey Kotchman
Carlos Lee
Kyle Loshe
Derek Lowe
Mark Lowe
Brandon Lyon
Daisuke Matsuzaka
Dustin Mosely
Guillermo Mota
Jaime Moyer
Will Ohman
Roy Oswalt
Carl Pavano
Brad Penny
Rafael Perez
Scott Podsednik
Jon Rauch
Francisco Rodriguez
Scott Rolen
J.C. Romero
Freddy Sanchez
Jonathan Sanchez
Joe Saunders
Grady Sizemore
Brandon Snyder
Ryan Theriot
Jim Thome
Matt Treanor
Jose Valverde
Chien-Ming Wang
Kip Wells
Brian Wilson
Randy Wolf
Chris Young
Carlos Zambrano

That's who's left. Outside of Michael Bourn and maybe Kyle Loshe, where are the impact players who make that team even remotely respectable? Most of the guys on that list are 1 step away from retirement, injured/coming off injuries, or just plain BAD. There's VERY little talent in the FA market IMO. IMHO, the Astros are better off letting their young players sink or swim at this point.

I certainly don't think they should be dealing the newly acquired talent in the farm to get MLB players so they can tread water.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

So you're thinking they should dive into the FA market to make the MLB team competitive right now, correct?

Bobby Abreu
Rod Barajas
Jason Bartlett
Michael Bourn
Dallas Braden
Miguel Cairo
Jose Contreras
Todd Coffey
Francisco Cordero
Johnny Damon
Chone Figgins
Jason Giambi
Kevin Gregg
Willie Harris
Livan Hernandez
Orlando Hudson
Aubrey Huff
Brandon Inge
Jason Isringhausen
Bobby Jenks
Adam Kennedy
Casey Kotchman
Carlos Lee
Kyle Loshe
Derek Lowe
Mark Lowe
Brandon Lyon
Daisuke Matsuzaka
Dustin Mosely
Guillermo Mota
Jaime Moyer
Will Ohman
Roy Oswalt
Carl Pavano
Brad Penny
Rafael Perez
Scott Podsednik
Jon Rauch
Francisco Rodriguez
Scott Rolen
J.C. Romero
Freddy Sanchez
Jonathan Sanchez
Joe Saunders
Grady Sizemore
Brandon Snyder
Ryan Theriot
Jim Thome
Matt Treanor
Jose Valverde
Chien-Ming Wang
Kip Wells
Brian Wilson
Randy Wolf
Chris Young
Carlos Zambrano

That's who's left. Outside of Michael Bourn and maybe Kyle Loshe, where are the impact players who make that team even remotely respectable? Most of the guys on that list are 1 step away from retirement, injured/coming off injuries, or just plain BAD. There's VERY little talent in the FA market IMO. IMHO, the Astros are better off letting their young players sink or swim at this point.

I certainly don't think they should be dealing the newly acquired talent in the farm to get MLB players so they can tread water.

I'm sure CE is with me in seeing the Astros deconstruct the entire organization to "restock" is being overplayed, especially in year 2. Right now, all they look like is the fantasy team owner in your league that acts like he knows what he's doing but that everyone else in the league jobs on trades. It also assumes that they are smarter than everyone else to be right on their prospect picks. By the time they start to see fruit, they may be 2 more GMs down the road.

[CySeymour]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

Seriously?

Here are the payrolls for the franchises that play in other similarly-sized markets to Houston (from 2012):

1. New York (Yankees: 198 / Mets: 93)
2. Los Angeles (Angels: 154 / Dodgers: 95)
3. Chicago (White Sox: 96 / Cubs 88)
4. Texas Rangers: 120
5. Houston: Projected 2013 25 million
6. Philadelphia: 174
7. Washington DC: 81

You're seriously suggesting that Houston is going to dump ~$60-$70m (the amount it would take to bring them into the same universe as their fellow large-market mates) into PLAYER DEVELOPMENT?

To do what? Train all their A prospects on solid gold weight benches?

Every other team on that list is running minor league systems, drafting players, making international signings, paying coaches/instructors, etc. in addition to paying out their ML payroll. To suggest that the Astros can't afford to sign enough players to field a competitive, non-100 loss team while building a farm system is ludicrous.

This is exactly why other sports have salary floors or a relegation/promotion system -- because the Astros are jobbing their fans and upsetting the competitive balance of the league (think the AL West won't be a heavy favorite to send 3 teams to the post-season with this whipping boy in their back pocket all year?) by just being cheap.

And, to make it more insulting, they're doing it in a market that should afford them the resources to be competitive AND building for the future at the same time.

No, I am more so saying that by buying mid-level free agents, and as far as they've fallen they would have had to get a lot of them, they wouldn't have been contenders anyway. So instead of essentially wasting the resources, use them instead to build up your farm system and once those players prove themselves at the big league level, then use the cash to sign them.

[Revering4Blue]

Originally Posted by JayStubbs

For me, a DH, a relief pitcher and a backup catcher are all roster filler. These pieces can be picked up rather cheaply off the waiver wire these days.

IMHO, judging by the list of remaining free agents - excluding, of course, Bourn and Loshe - none offer the upside of the aforementioned acquisitions.

In a rebuilding situation,as opposed to reloading, you have to be thinking upside/long-term.

[TRF]

Lohse, Oswalt and Bourne. 1 year for Oswalt, Lohse 4 and Bourne 4.

That'd up the payroll to about 48 mil. It'd solidify two rotaion spots for a year, allowing the farm to mature and gives the Astros a legit CF and leadoff hitter.

Carter will make a good DH. give him 400+ AB's he'll hit 30+ HR's in that bandbox.

It wouldn't make them contenders. It will bridge the gap to when their farm is ready to produce major league talent.